You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Pittsburgh: legality, to eat)

[SuburbanPioneer]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

So basically you're saying F*** the regions economy and the fact a majority of people wont be able to get to work, school, dr appts (Their Tax Payers too)....Will just let business and people pack up and leave region for locations that actually have better Public Transit can workers can actually get to work...because we should all hate PAT that much as?

We should all prepare to sit in 2hrs worth of Traffic on Clogged Parkways, wasting our 5$ a gallon gas. Because we hate PAT....

Sorry but this type blind idiocy to the situation feeds right in to what Gov DoNothing his hoping for come election time. It will cause Pittsburgh to go through the Steel Collapse all over again....Its 2012 NO CITY in America is or can be Successful and Thriving without robust public transit systems, ask Detroit. NOT 1 City

You won't believe this but I actually never use the F*** word, I know the difference between "Their" and "They're," yet I agree with Curtis on this one.

Governor Corbett clearly stated that he just does not have that kind of money to keep supporting PAT. I don't know about you, but when I didn't have the money, I was not looking into getting further into debt, I was looking into ways to save while on the other hand thinking of ways to increase my income.

PAT has done quite a bit already, eliminating unprofitable routes, trying to get the union to remove outrageous benefits and pension packages. They will be eliminating more unprofitable routes to cut costs (sure 35% route cut sounds extreme, but considering ridership cut, it is less than 7%, which is ~20000 riders out of ~280000 total PAT ridership, the number will be even less considering that many will still park and ride). They will be increasing fares, because it only makes sense to have the bulk of the cost carried by those who actually use the service and not the tax payer. In other words, PAT is trying to become more like a private company, actually thinking about operating costs, budgets, clients. PAT should continue on that path if they want to stay in business.

This is all good. After all, we don't want an audit of PAT similar to that for NY & NJ Port authority to find Pittsburgh Port Authority "dysfunctional" and recommend "changes in its management structure." But wait, I'm sorry, NYC has a great public transit system, so they have no traffic issues or clogged highways...

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Arlington, TX is not playing on the same level that Pittsburgh is...Pittsburgh is striving to be seen as a international city....Can't achieve that status with NO Transit.

I do love Pittsburgh, but saying it is an international city is really stretching things - I mean, subsidies are needed just to have a token international airport route.

I would also note that both cities are approximately the same population.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by SuburbanPioneer

Governor Corbett clearly stated that he just does not have that kind of money to keep supporting PAT. I don't know about you, but when I didn't have the money, I was not looking into getting further into debt, I was looking into ways to save while on the other hand thinking of ways to increase my income.

So, OK, for argument's sake let's say he's right. Wouldn't it accord with the majority party's beliefs to decentralize whatever available money there is, return Allegh Co its proportionate share, and say in effect "we can't help, so here's your money back - do your best". True, a legislative house-cleaning would help - give the county not just the money but the legal power to reach whatever solution it can manage, and leave it in our hands.

[pman]

Originally Posted by SuburbanPioneer

You won't believe this but I actually never use the F*** word, I know the difference between "Their" and "They're," yet I agree with Curtis on this one....because it's only fare to have the bulk of the cost carried by those who actually use the service and not the tax payer.

karma's a *****. actually, this isn't entirely true unless drivers start paying their share and stop receiving subsidized parking, subsidized roads, etc. there are situations where it's cheaper to subsidize transit than to build extra road capacity thus keeping your taxes lower. whether or not the routes eliminated meet that criteria, etc is another story....but if you want to save state money, you should also be demanding an end to rural roads since they are the most heavily subsidized form of transportation.

Originally Posted by SuburbanPioneer

... (sure 35% route cut sounds extreme, but considering ridership cut, it is less than 7%, which is ~20,000 riders out of ~280,000 total PAT ridership, the number will be even less considering that many will still park and ride).
They will be increasing fares...

these are some interesting points about the severity of cuts vs the relatively small declines in ridership. OTOH, I don't thinkfare increases are the answer, you talk about private companies, but they have capital investment. investments that lower the cost of moving people are what PAT needs. you talk about private companies, but PAT isn't allowed to dump legeacy costs.

Originally Posted by SuburbanPioneer

This is all good. After all, we don't want an audit of PAT similar to that for NY & NJ Port authority to find Pittsburgh Port Authority "dysfunctional" and recommend "changes in its management structure." But wait, I'm sorry, NYC has a great public transit system, so they have no traffic issues or clogged highways...

not sure what you're point is here, if you have one. are you arguing that there wouldn't be more traffic issues in ny without transit? NY wouldn't be able to function without transit, thus lowering the value of the property in nyc. Pittsburgh, OTOH, seems to want it both ways..bend over backwards for the driver and keep property values low but also to fund a transit system.

[Paint It Pink]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

But that situation is not good for the city....and many companies located Downtown will have the same line of thinking that Suburbs are more attractive because of the space and free parking rather than being centrally located Downtown....Again not what the City wants to see happen....Downtown could become a wasteland, so much effort right now to get Downtown going at night and on weekends that this would make the one time of day when Downtown is bustling and attractive to business look like the Nights and Weekends.

To be honest, I'm shocked this hasn't happened already.

There are a couple of big companies looking to rent large spaces in Downtown, but the space isn't available. However, if USX takes a hike... well... that hole will be filled. I just read an article in an actual newspaper (I know, right? What the hell is that? I even got ink on my fingers! ha!) just the other day about this, and now of course I can't remember what company. Let me see if I can find it online, I'll post it.

The transit needs afixin', regardless. If big corporations move out of town and take their employees with them, the busses won't be as crowded (maybe!), but the street traffic will probably be worse...

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by SuburbanPioneer

You won't believe this but I actually never use the F*** word, I know the difference between "Their" and "They're,"

Good for you, you get a Gold Star for today!

Governor Corbett clearly stated that he just does not have that kind of money to keep supporting PAT. I don't know about you, but when I didn't have the money, I was not looking into getting further into debt, I was looking into ways to save while on the other hand thinking of ways to increase my income.

Sorry but that's BullSh*t....probably another word you've never used....

PAT has done quite a bit already, eliminating unprofitable routes, trying to get the union to remove outrageous benefits and pension packages. They will be eliminating more unprofitable routes to cut costs (sure 35% route cut sounds extreme, but considering ridership cut, it is less than 7%, which is ~20000 riders out of ~280000 total PAT ridership, the number will be even less considering that many will still park and ride). They will be increasing fares, because it's only fare to have the bulk of the cost carried by those who actually use the service and not the tax payer. In other words, PAT is trying to become more like a private company, actually thinking about operating costs, budgets, clients. PAT should continue on that path if they want to stay in business.

Bland has stated on record that all the unprofitable routes have already been cut with the restructuring in the TDP....What's been cut by the 15% last year and being cut coming up are much needed heavily used routes...But they're the most expensive to operate from a funding standpoint.

PAT is not trying to operate as private operator they're (did I get it right that time) trying to keep some semblance of a Transit network in tact, as the State and Gov DoNothing continue to starve it by continuously reducing funds.

But wait, I'm sorry, NYC has a great public transit system, so they have no traffic issues or clogged highways...

NYC has 8 million residences in the city and 20 million in metro of which 10 million feed into Manhattan a day with an infrastructure that's over 4 decades outdated.

With that great Public Transit system is the reason NYC is NYC (the Capital of the world by some people notion) and all that goes a long with it.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I do love Pittsburgh, but saying it is an international city is really stretching things - I mean, subsidies are needed just to have a token international airport route.

It's probably pointless to get bogged down in a semantic argument about the definition of "international city". And clearly the airport has its own problems, and not really germane to the question of intracity mass transit. But Arlington is probably not really a fair comparison - apart from my earlier point about the Texan approach, Arlington is part of a greater conurbation, and Pittsburgh isn't.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I do love Pittsburgh, but saying it is an international city is really stretching things - I mean, subsidies are needed just to have a token international airport route.

I would also note that both cities are approximately the same population.

Did you miss the words "Striving to be seen as"....No one said it actually was an International player, yet....But the point is with no Transit those dreams are pointless.

Doesn't matter about the population of the city, Arlington is not a capital city of a large region, its metro is nowhere that of Pittsburgh....It doesn't have the name reconigintion that Pittsburgh does....if you didn't put TX on the end, I would've thought you were talking about Arlington VA. Arlington is a pivotal city to TX tax base the way Pittsburgh is to PA.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by pman

unless drivers start paying their share and stop receiving subsidized parking, subsidized roads, etc

Sure - there we go! A county-administered access fee on all county roads leading to the parkways, dedicated to funding a new county-level transit system. Might even have enough extra money left over to pave some roads now and then.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by squarian

Sure - there we go! A county-administered access fee on all county roads leading to the parkways, dedicated to funding a new county-level transit system. Might even have enough extra money left over to pave some roads now and then.

Fitz isn't going to go for anymore County-specific Transit agencies......anything with a new agency will involve a regional transit authority, its cost prohibitive to continue to have independent transit agencies for each county in the region.

The new agency needs to be set up just like SEPTA almost mirror images in the way they're structured.