The Official Cranberry Township Thread (Pittsburgh, Akron: house, luxury, square footage)

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Cranberry is growing. The city is starting to show signs of growth. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other? As many people have pointed out before, the suburbs will attract one crowd while the city will attract another. The city is going to have to find a way to thrive alongside expanding suburbs, which looks to be finally happening.

Edit: I don't understand why Cranberry gets all of the hate here while other expanding areas of sprawl without town centers (Murrysville, Robinson, etc...) get a free pass. Cranberry is bigger, but its size probably has something to do with its easier access into downtown than other areas (no tunnels).

[ferraris]

SCR, I share most of your preferences in neighborhoods (I live in the War Streets), but I think there are a few key things you are overlooking in judging Cranberry.

1.) People who live in Cranberry benefit the city when they spend money in the city. YES, it is less money than they would spend if they lived in or closer to the city, and it is MUCH less than they would generate by living and being taxed in the city...BUT, it is still a contribution. There are people in this world that like Cranberry style areas, and if the Cranberry style areas did not exist in Pittsburgh, many would not live here. The option is not to take these people and companies and move them from Cranberry to the city, but to move them From Cranberry to Tysons Corner or any other similar place in the country. Even if they city's tax revnues do not go up, Pittsburgh's cultural and sporting institutions benefit GREATLY from extra population in the nearby region. Even long distance transit options increase; I've talked to people at the Megabus stop that were coming from outside of Allegheny county just to catch a cheap bus.

2.) I think you are viewing it on too local of a scale. Your fight is Pittsburgh vs Cranberry, when it really should be American cities vs American suburbs. As long as Cranberry style suburbs are desirable and common in this country, the Pittsburgh area benefits by having them. It's just necessary in order for us to be competitive.

3.) Have you stopped to think that the reason you can live in a neighborhood like Polish Hill, which you like so much, is partially due to the fact that property values are driven down because people have varying tastes? I'm as perplexed as you by how many people don't like urban living; but I sure am glad that I can afford to live in urban neighborhoods on the cheap because of it! In that sense, we are both benefiting from the people who choose to live outside of the city, because they are not competing for our housing.

[WestLibertyAve]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The problem, BurghGirl, is that I suppose I'm just frustrated. The reason why the Peters, the Fayettes, the Strabanes, the Murrysvilles, and the Cranberrys of the world are burgeoning at the expense of their host cities is because, primarily, of the perceived (or real) poor quality of the public school systems in urban areas. I don't ever foresee that image being reversed in the minds of most parents, yet without stable middle-class FAMILIES I don't foresee the city ever having a bright future.

This is true, but how are you going to convince a typical middle class family to be the pioneers who send their children to these underperforming city schools? Anyone know the percentage of graduates a school like Peters sends to college, versus a school like Carrick? What about average salary 10 years down the road? Even if your kid is smart, do you want to send him to a classroom with an out of control class and overwhelmed teacher, or a place with strict discipline and a top-notch learning environment?

Also, how often do you hear of violent crime in these areas? The only reason they are in the police beat is because someone tried stealing clothes or broke into a car in the parking lot of one of the big box stores.

Suburbia is just more appealing to families. Big yards, safe neighborhoods, good schools, big box stores nearby for one-stop shopping (yes, a lot of people see this as an asset). The soccer moms can jog from cul-de-sac to cul-de-sac without feeling threatened by the "dangerous" black people they hear about on the news.

Figure out how to create that comfort level in the city limits and you may just have yourself a platform for your mayoral campaign.


And for the record...I hate the sprawl too, but I just see it as a necessary evil of having a prosperous city/metro area. Some people simply enjoy that lifestyle. Here's an article about a Cranberry-esque area outside of Charlotte.

Making a home in one of North Carolina's fastest-growing places - CNN

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by WestLibertyAve

This is true, but how are you going to convince a typical middle class family to be the pioneers who send their children to these underperforming city schools? Anyone know the percentage of graduates a school like Peters sends to college, versus a school like Carrick?

Thank you for getting at the crux of the argument. I'd like to see what percentage of Cranberry residents either have kids or at one time had kids while living there. I'd imagine the percentage is very high.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by WestLibertyAve

Anyone know the percentage of graduates a school like Peters sends to college, versus a school like Carrick? What about average salary 10 years down the road?

I'm defying the odds!

[robrobrob]

I think there are lot of people that want to live in a suburban home with a two car garage and a large yard and don't want to spend a ton of money. They also want good schools. It is for this reason that Cranberry is booming. There are few places in the city where you can buy a suburban home for suburban pricing. In Lincoln Place there is a suburburan development called Casa Bill that was built recently. If you didnt' know you were in Lincoln Place you would think you would be in the burbs. Casa Bill has sold without any of the hype surrounding other developents. Frankly, not everyone wants to live in a loft or in sidewalk neighborhood. Lincoln Place isn't the nicest place but it is safe and feeds to Allderdice so the schools are fine. Maybe if our urban planners and developers built something besides lofts and townhouses we could grow this city because we could attract a whole other group of buyers. Our problem is the most of our cheap land is in a ghetto and that makes development of McMansions tough. I hate Maronda Homes, for example, but I would rather raise a family in one than in a loft in the Strip District.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by WestLibertyAve

This is true, but how are you going to convince a typical middle class family to be the pioneers who send their children to these underperforming city schools?

I think the city screwed up when they let their teachers live out of the city. Since the city schools are improving maybe we should change this back.

[Craziaskowboi]

Cranberry is becoming an edge city like Monroeville and Robinson, with a decent-sized population and a critical mass of employment. Many people who live in those places also work there. Cranberry isn't a classic "bedroom community" anymore, and Monroeville and Robinson never have been.

Something else to think about: a lot of the older housing in the Pittsburgh area lacks the amenities that homebuyers expect these days. Pittsburgh has a glut of old housing and a shortage of new housing. If it's cheaper to build a new house than it is to remodel an old house to give it extra amenities, then new houses will be built.

As an example of what I'm talking about, a friend of mine bought a house in Brighton Heights. I found out why it was only worth $96K when he bought it: it only had one and a half bathrooms. The full bathroom was on the top floor with the bedrooms, and the half-bathroom was in the basement. There was no guest bathroom on the main floor of the house. It was a nice, well-kept house, but it was also inconvenient if I, or more than one person, for that matter, had to use the bathroom.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I think many people (well probaby not many outside of message boards) in the city are obsessed with cranberry in a negative way whereas most people in cranberry don't even give a thought about the city. I personally don't care how others choose to live, but to each his own.

That's because those people are willfully ignorant about issues such as good urban planning and sustainable living, and the "growth" is more like an uncontrolled cancer than something to be looked on as beneficial to the region in the long run.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by airwave09

That's because those people are willfully ignorant about issues such as good urban planning and sustainable living, and the "growth" is more like an uncontrolled cancer than something to be looked on as beneficial to the region in the long run.

Well they seem to be getting along quite fine regardless of the cancer they are living in