Pittsburgh segregated and racist? (Penn Hills, Upper St. Clair: live, move to, Whole Foods)

[Katarina Witt]

I am the one who made the remark about "mainstream schools". I guess it depends on how one defines "mainstream". Yes, Howard has long had a great reputation. I would call it "mainstream". I was talking about black colleges that were not accredited. The reason black students were courageous enough to attempt to attend the U of Ala to desegregate it was that they weren't getting a good education at many of the unaccredited black colleges of the day.

[Drover]

So in conclusion, as you can tell by reading this thread, race relations in Pittsburgh are just find and all racial issues have been resolved. No problems at all.

In all seriousness... as I read through this thread, I sense a bit of denial on one side, a bit of cynicism on the other, and plenty in the middle groping to find some common ground that does not yet appear to have a strong foothold in Pittsburgh, or probably not in many other cities for that matter. And I don't make that observation as someone who pretends to be above it all and have it all figured... I don't have the answers either. It seems nobody does.

It also seems to me that Pittsburgh's black middle-class is nearly imperceptible, and that's unfortunate. Whether it once had a black middle-class tradition or not, I don't know for certain. If it did, that tradition seems to have vanished along with the rest of the city's fortunes when the steel industry went to Hell.

My extended thoughts on race relations in Pittsburgh were covered in a slightly different context in this post, but are fairly germane to this conversation.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Yesterday, Brent and I went out to a family style restaurant for a late breakfast. It was noon. We were seated next to a older black man and what I would assume were his two sons, dressed nicely in sports teams shirts which is the style here and not tattooed up. They were talking among themselves, just like every one else. A nice relaxing atmosphere, with laughter... they still had their menus, so they hadn't been there long.

The waitress was slow. For us, and for them. She comes to us and asks what we want to drink, we tell her coffee... and she then goes to the other family and takes their drink order. It's noon, it's Saturday, the two sons order beers.

She brings us our coffee and takes our order, and goes away and walks back with the sons beers, and the hostess, who sat us. The hostess stays back a bit and watches.

After what seems to be forever, which should have been explained to both our parties... we get our food.

The father notices -- and they were sat first... but with the having to get the hostess to come watch... they ordered after us....

I hear them talking about this... and I wait. The waitress comes back -- again with the hostess... and refills the father's coffee and asks if the sons need a another brew.. and the Dad asks her why we got our food first.

She explained there was a large party somewhere in the building -- but never apologized. And then brought the food... again with the hostess.

In the meantime -- she was refilling our cups everytime she could...

Now -- this is Northern California, and a year ago I would have saw this as a simple customer service faux pas of a badly trained waitress...

But now I see this as not so subtle racism.

I truly thought that if anywhere would have this beat it was the Bay Area. But we don't. It was pushed underground, and it's bubbling up. People that I would have NEVER thought this of are saying things to me that blow my mind. And they say them in ways that sometimes I don't get it, until later, so I can't say anything to them.

It was a few months before I realized what one of my residents meant when she said "I don't know how they can afford to live here". I thought she meant a particular family, not a particular race. Now I say "They signed the real estate papers just like every one else."

She finally got that I don't like it when she talks like that, so she doesn't talk like that to me anymore... however -- she's still thinking it.

Right now I'm left with the hope that since it's the old people that are yapping this crap, that maybe, just maybe, when they die, that crap will die with them....

I don't think it will die with the old people. The difference is now that young people today will either
A)Mask it and pretend there are no problems
B)Make stupid jokes and then say "I'm not a racist, its's just a joke"
and many times I can pick up on the little cues. Before it was all there and "in your face". Now what has happen is that the last generation tried to bury the racism underground(no x marks the spot) but the stench of it still gets in the air.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I don't think it will die with the old people. The difference is now that young people today will either
A)Mask it and pretend there are no problems
B)Make stupid jokes and then say "I'm not a racist, its's just a joke"
and many times I can pick up on the little cues. Before it was all there and "in your face". Now what has happen is that the last generation tried to bury the racism underground(no x marks the spot) but the stench of it still gets in the air.

I'm glad you brought this up.

I've always felt that political correctness was just burying the problem deeper.

It seems to be what everyone expects, but all I see are Hypocrites.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Drover

In all seriousness... as I read through this thread, I sense a bit of denial on one side, a bit of cynicism on the other, and plenty in the middle groping to find some common ground that does not yet appear to have a strong foothold in Pittsburgh, or probably not in many other cities for that matter. And I don't make that observation as someone who pretends to be above it all and have it all figured... I don't have the answers either. It seems nobody does.

I wasn't in denial. I really thought more people were like me. It's sad.

[chielgirl]

First of all, my mother left school in the 8th grade to work in support of a family of 8. My father couldn't afford to go to college. Please, poverty is not strictly a black problem. We're white. What my parents taught me was that life is tough and that if I got an education maybe I could get ahead. At least, I would have a chance.

I was born and raised in Highland Park. When I live in the States (currently Asia) I live in Highland Park. My neighborhood is diverse. It’s become a mixture of lower income to middle-class. It’s filled with kids who have no parental units at home, roaming the streets, stealing, selling drugs and worst of all, beating up on kids who are smart in school. I’ve heard neighbors say, my kid don’t need school, that stuff’s for whitey. So, tell me whose fault that is? Mine, I don’t think so. If education is the way out, take it.

If not, shame on you.

If you can't afford kids or don't have the wherewithal to raise them, don't have them. I knew early on that I didn't have what it takes to have kids so I chose not to. I didn't bring kids into the world that I couldn't care for. Raising kids is a hard job.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I wasn't in denial. I really thought more people were like me. It's sad.

Well, I had actually thought of you as being one of the "in the middle" people.

[Katarina Witt]

Is Pittsburgh racist? I don't know. Is Pittsburgh segregated? Yes, overwhelmingly so. I was shocked to look up the stats on towns in the Beaver Valley to find that only Beaver Falls, Aliquippa and Rochester have significant black populations. Blackhawk High School, where the kids from my old 'hood go to school, is 98% whilte. (I went to hs before Blackhawk was built, am a graduate of BFHS.) I think part of the reason is that Pittsburgh is an old city with a lot of old housing patterns. It's different out west, where many of the housing areas were built in the post Civil Rights era, and there weren't as many "designated" areas. Just my opinion.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Drover

So in conclusion, as you can tell by reading this thread, race relations in Pittsburgh are just find and all racial issues have been resolved. No problems at all.

I don't know. I think this thread is pretty tame compared to some of the others I've read (for example Detroit and Milwaukee have some real knuckleheads....on both sides of the issue).

[green_mariner]

Honestly, this is what I see, cities all over the USA have their segregated places, not by law, but in many ways it happens. There is segregated parts of Atlanta and Dallas, as there is in Pittsburgh and Detroit. The difference is that Dallas and Atlanta have booming economies and tons of people pouring in. Dallas passed the 1 million+ plateau in the 90's. Detroit fell below 900,000 at the turn of the 21st century(from 1million plus in the 1970's) and Pittsburgh has lost half of its population. Bad economies and shrinking population tend to make the bad things about a city more noticeable.