Momentum continues in Market Square (Oakland: live, shops, delivery)

[gg]

Originally Posted by greg42

Well, we'll actually see how this works out in a different way: Winghart's is opening two additional locations, one on the South Side, and one up in Warrendale.

Oh that is a shame. Already expanding and spreading themselves thin. This happens a lot in the restaurant industry. Pizza Vezuvio is a prime example. Yeah, they are just making pizzas right? When they were open in the South Side with that one little pizza place it was the best pizza in Pittsburgh. It actually rivaled a good NYC slice. Now they have several locations and the pizza is average at best. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way at all for a pizza. Usually raw dough and inconsistent as all get out.

You stated, they are only making burgers right? ONLY BURGERS? Do you have any idea how difficult cooking a constant burger is? Med rare? Med? Rare? We are talking about seconds making a difference in quality. From what I have been told on this board, they actually CAN make a med rare burger. A restauranteur friend of mine when there and told me it was the best burger they have ever had. He even went so far as to say he needs to go back to make sure that wasn't a fluke. If they expand that might be the end. Certainly if they get into three locations, I probably won't go. The owners will be running all over the place and quality control is gone. It happens so often, I can't count them. Jimmy G's was a good little restaurant in Aspinwall. They wanted to expand and did. They purchased a huge place in Sharpsburg and it is now closed. I never went to that huge place, because I know a kitchen can't handle that capacity and be consistent. It just can't be done.

If you want a good restaurant that is a good size and consistent, go to Cross Keys. They are about the most knowledgeable people I know in the restaurant business. LaForet anyone? They were ranked number one for more years than I can count when they owned it. Not a big place, but top quality.

Ah well, the world needs its McDonalds too. They seem to do pretty well.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

You can think all you like, but once the kitchen is on overload the food quality suffers. Expansion is usually the end of quality.

So, by definition, all restaurants should have 1 seat since any expansion will degrade the quality. My sense is that you've never stepped foot inside Wingharts and so, alert the media, you're arguing out of ignorance.

Please proceed to tell me in your response how you're all-knowing and that you can't possibly deign to have this conversation with me since I just can't grasp your brilliance or business acumen...it always makes me chuckle.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Oh that is a shame. Already expanding and spreading themselves thin. This happens a lot in the restaurant industry. Pizza Vezuvio is a prime example. Yeah, they are just making pizzas right? When they were open in the South Side with that one little pizza place it was the best pizza in Pittsburgh. It actually rivaled a good NYC slice. Now they have several locations and the pizza is average at best. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way at all for a pizza. Usually raw dough and inconsistent as all get out.

Do you mean Pizza Sola? Same thing happened to them. When it opened in East Liberty, it was an excellent, if expensive, slice of pizza. By the time they got around to offering delivered pizza (via Wheel Deliver), it was absolutely flavorless, and cold by the time it got to me, but just as expensive. Overpriced drek, really.

Originally Posted by h_curtis

You stated, they are only making burgers right? ONLY BURGERS? Do you have any idea how difficult cooking a constant burger is? Med rare? Med? Rare? We are talking about seconds making a difference in quality. From what I have been told on this board, they actually CAN make a med rare burger. A restauranteur friend of mine when there and told me it was the best burger they have ever had.

The rare burger I had at Winghart's on Monday was probably the best burger I have ever eaten.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Lobick

So, by definition, all restaurants should have 1 seat since any expansion will degrade the quality. My sense is that you've never stepped foot inside Wingharts and so, alert the media, you're arguing out of ignorance.

Please proceed to tell me in your response how you're all-knowing and that you can't possibly deign to have this conversation with me since I just can't grasp your brilliance or business acumen...it always makes me chuckle.

One seat? What kind of argument are you presenting? How silly. As someone who KNOWS how that business operates, I know one thing for sure. Expansion usually always leads to decline in quality. We are not talking about some silly one seat. We are talking about anything more than a 15% increase in capacity.

You seem to have owned a restaurant also, since you are doing battle with someone that has. Tell me about your experience. Did you just order frozen Sysco foods that need to go in the fryer? Did you make things from scratch? Did you start off making things from scratch and shift to Sysco pre-mades?

[gg]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Do you mean Pizza Sola? Same thing happened to them. When it opened in East Liberty, it was an excellent, if expensive, slice of pizza. By the time they got around to offering delivered pizza (via Wheel Deliver), it was absolutely flavorless, and cold by the time it got to me, but just as expensive. Overpriced drek, really.

The rare burger I had at Winghart's on Monday was probably the best burger I have ever eaten.

Yeah, Pizza Sola was at one time excellent. What a shame huh?

I am sure Wingart's is great. I am just wanting to get there before the expansion, because that usually is the end of that. Where are they going to pull a broiler from? Will they move their current broiler from downtown to the South Hills location, because he happens to live down that way? There are a host of issues. How many people will they pull from downtown to start up the new place? Will the new people be as good? How many people do the owners know they can trust in this cash business? That is always a concern when you have multiple locations. People have no idea what all has to go on when they open one new location, let alone two. Where are the quality control people going to all come from? How many will they need to pull from downtown? Will the owners focus on the new places to get them going? Will the cook let quality slide because the owners aren't looking at food leaving the kitchen?

[greg42]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Oh that is a shame. Already expanding and spreading themselves thin. ...

Honestly, that was my thought too. But. I will always give them a chance first. I'm not gonna knock a place I know to be good just for expanding. I get the generalization, but not everything ends up worse in reality.

BRGR in Cranberry is another expansion of a burger place which is small (the one in East Liberty) into a much larger suburban restaurant. The food has been fine there so far. Legume just got a good review in their much bigger new space (they moved though, it's not a second shop)

So while I get the odds might be tougher, don't just not go because these guys have gotten into 3 locations. If it goes downhill, it'll be sad, and then yeah, if it's not good, don't go. But don't knock 'em for trying. Not every multi-location thing sucks. Don't get all cynical solely based on the expansion, get cynical if they don't pull it off.

At any rate, go there in Market Square now while it's still just one. I can't remember if you've been or not.

[SteelCityRising]

I guess we poor peons aren't quite as picky because I happen to still like Pizza Sola.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I guess we poor peons aren't quite as picky because I happen to still like Pizza Sola.

Really? It used to be much better. Now, at $4.50 for the average slice, I think of it as awfully expensive for what you get.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I guess we poor peons aren't quite as picky because I happen to still like Pizza Sola.

Maybe I've just lucked out, but I've noticed no difference between pizza I've gotten from Sola now from the pizzas I've gotten from there when it was Vesuvio. Though I do prefer blue grotto pizza the next block down if you're in the area.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I guess we poor peons aren't quite as picky because I happen to still like Pizza Sola.

Originally Posted by UKyank

Maybe I've just lucked out, but I've noticed no difference between pizza I've gotten from Sola now from the pizzas I've gotten from there when it was Vesuvio. Though I do prefer blue grotto pizza the next block down if you're in the area.

I tried it again by the slice a few months back, and it didn't seem any better than the delivery pizza. Which location is Blue Grotto near?