Football Culture (Pittsburgh, Butler, Aliquippa: unemployment rate, cost of, beachfront)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by squarian

It seems to me obvious that attachment to the local team is a part of the broader local culture, and therefore any explanation of differences is logically to be found in the broader local culture. The local culture of Pittsburgh could generally and broadly be described as industrial-working-class of predominately eastern and southern European origin, so that's where I'd start to look for clues. I'm sure there is more to it than your casual explanation allows, but it's not interesting enough to pursue.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. You've come to your conclusion (eastern and s. European tribalism) first.

I do agree with Brian about the relative lack of in-migration being a factor as well. It's not the same here, in this city of transplants. There are groups like "Coloradans for Nebraska" that sponsor broadcast of NU football games locally; a Green Bay Packers bar near my house, etc. Many divided loyalties.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by squarian

It seems to me obvious that attachment to the local team is a part of the broader local culture, and therefore any explanation of differences is logically to be found in the broader local culture.

I don't think that is correct. Major league sports teams are not organic outgrowths of the local culture. They are a sophisticated entertainment product being marketed in a coordinated fashion by the league and its many affiliates (including national and local media outlets). I agree that this marketing can work a bit better in practice in certain times and places versus others, but I don't think it is necessary to look to "local culture" in some deep historical sense to explain why that difference in market outcomes would occur. In fact, we know that things like stadium attendance and television shares are strongly affected by the recent and current success of the relevant team--that is part of why many leagues have established "parity" rules designed to help each market enjoy a successful team at least in some seasons. So I think it makes obvious sense to exhaust those well-confirmed factors before exploring other options.

Now if we were talking about something like cookie tables at weddings, OK. But "consistently successful NFL team is very popular among local sports fans"? That's really not something that requires a sophisticated understanding of local culture to explain.

[Krisps]

I recently watched an interesting documentary on the Steelers, though I think it was more on western PA football. I think it was on the doc. channel. If I remember right, the explanation for both the incredible popularity of football as well as western PA's source of many football greats stems initially from the abrupt loss of manufacturing, or when the steel industry rapidly departed. Football (starting at the high school level) became a very inexpensive way to escape the realities of the sudden poor economy and was also a way for people to relieve their frustrations. At that time, the pro football team was consistently bad, but they had a reputation for playing very hard, the team seemed to emulate Pittsburgh itself. When the Steelers of the 70s finally became successful, it's no surprise how people became fanatical about the team. I think that since then, that attitude has simply been passed on to each generation. On top of that, there are few pro teams in any sport that have been as consistent or stable.

[BrianTH]

By the way, somewhat hiding the extent to which major league sports teams' relative popularity depends on their recent success is part of major league sports marketing. In fact, encouraging each team's fans to believe they are more passionate than other fans is part of their marketing. So that is part of why I start out skeptical about the idea that there is some local affinity for the Steelers that can't simply be explained by their recent successes--I know that the Steelers and the NFL very much want me to believe that is true, and that their national and local media partners are likely to play along.

[hornet67]

Originally Posted by Krisps

I recently watched an interesting documentary on the Steelers, though I think it was more on western PA football. I think it was on the doc. channel. If I remember right, the explanation for both the incredible popularity of football as well as western PA's source of many football greats stems initially from the abrupt loss of manufacturing, or when the steel industry rapidly departed. Football (starting at the high school level) became a very inexpensive way to escape the realities of the sudden poor economy and was also a way for people to relieve their frustrations. At that time, the pro football team was consistently bad, but they had a reputation for playing very hard, the team seemed to emulate Pittsburgh itself. When the Steelers of the 70s finally became successful, it's no surprise how people became fanatical about the team. I think that since then, that attitude has simply been passed on to each generation. On top of that, there are few pro teams in any sport that have been as consistent or stable.

You are correct, and I tried ( withiut success it seems!) to state that football has been ingrained in this area's culture for probably over 100 years or so. Instead , we seem to have veered into some long winded conversation/dissertation about tribalism.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Krisps

I recently watched an interesting documentary on the Steelers, though I think it was more on western PA football. I think it was on the doc. channel. If I remember right, the explanation for both the incredible popularity of football as well as western PA's source of many football greats stems initially from the abrupt loss of manufacturing, or when the steel industry rapidly departed. Football (starting at the high school level) became a very inexpensive way to escape the realities of the sudden poor economy and was also a way for people to relieve their frustrations. At that time, the pro football team was consistently bad, but they had a reputation for playing very hard, the team seemed to emulate Pittsburgh itself. When the Steelers of the 70s finally became successful, it's no surprise how people became fanatical about the team. I think that since then, that attitude has simply been passed on to each generation. On top of that, there are few pro teams in any sport that have been as consistent or stable.

I would have to disagree with that. HS football has always been a big deal around here. Joe Namath graduated from Beaver Falls High School in 1961, long before the steel crash. Joe Montana graduated in 1974, somewhat ahead of the crash. Tony Dorsett graduated in 1972, again ahead of the crash. In fact, in thinking about it, I think fb was bigger before the steel crash, b/c the population, especially of HS age kids, was larger. My old high school (BFHS) is a shadow of its former self.

The problem with these documentaries is that they have these young kids doing the research, and they don't even know about these guys (IMO). Back in the 50s and 60s, the Steelers had many years where they played .500 or less.

Pittsburgh Steelers Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com

[Geeo]

HS football was big here way before Big Steel crashed in the 80s. It's easiest for those documentaries just to link the popularity to the demise of steel, but that wasn't the case. I believe there were fierce rivalries between Beaver Falls and Aliquippa, Homestead and Munhall, Monsessen and Donora and lots of other little towns since the end of World War II. Before television, half the town would walk to the high school fields for an evening of local football.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by Geeo

I believe there were fierce rivalries between Beaver Falls and Aliquippa, Homestead and Munhall, Monsessen and Donora and lots of other little towns since the end of World War II. Before television, half the town would walk to the high school fields for an evening of local football.

That would predate by a few decades a "sophisticated entertainment product being marketed in a coordinated fashion by the league and its many affiliates (including national and local media outlets)", wouldn't it? Obviously, there is no connection whatsoever between HS football and NFL football in the region's culture.

[hornet67]

Originally Posted by Geeo

HS football was big here way before Big Steel crashed in the 80s. It's easiest for those documentaries just to link the popularity to the demise of steel, but that wasn't the case. I believe there were fierce rivalries between Beaver Falls and Aliquippa, Homestead and Munhall, Monsessen and Donora and lots of other little towns since the end of World War II. Before television, half the town would walk to the high school fields for an evening of local football.

Quite correct, I played in the 60's, and football was popular long before that. Have people forgotten local NFL players from the 50's like Johnny Unitas, Joe Schimdt, Bill George, etc? High school football was big when my father graduated from high school in 1939.

[Krisps]

Katiana, the documentary explained that the fall of the steel industry began far before the 70s. I specifically remember some footage of Myron Copes in the documentary explaining this very thing, that it began far before the time period that people typically associate with the decline. But I'm just repeating what I watched, I'm no expert on the topic. I just find Pittsburgh to be very interesting.