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You have to take their mechanistic approach with a grain of salt, but still I think it is fair to say Bloomfield is one of the top few most walkable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh--and again, a lot of the notable alternatives would be a lot more expensive.
I agree with you. I've never lived in Bloomfield, but would have no objection to living there. Sure its in an urban area and has the problems that go along with it, but really its not that bad of a place to live at all.
I'd have to agree.
Speaking as a former Bloomfield resident, in some ways it's the most typical Pittsburgh neighborhood. It lacks attractive housing, but it also lacks decayed vacant property, missing teeth, and general residential blight. The commercial area is solid, but not hip. The neighborhood isn't seriously unsafe, but there's some minor property crime. It's got great bus access, but terrible parking.
I'd go so far to say if you have a major issue with Bloomfield, you just don't like cities, because it's about as solid a working-class urban neighborhood with a commercial main street can be. The only things "better" are totally gentrified, or residential areas which might as well be in the suburbs - neither of which are really characteristic of the urban experience.
Speaking as a former Bloomfield resident, in some ways it's the most typical Pittsburgh neighborhood. It lacks attractive housing, but it also lacks decayed vacant property, missing teeth, and general residential blight. The commercial area is solid, but not hip. The neighborhood isn't seriously unsafe, but there's some minor property crime. It's got great bus access, but terrible parking.
I'd go so far to say if you have a major issue with Bloomfield, you just don't like cities, because it's about as solid a working-class urban neighborhood with a commercial main street can be. The only things "better" are totally gentrified, or residential areas which might as well be in the suburbs - neither of which are really characteristic of the urban experience.
I lived in an apartment above a storefront on Liberty in the heart of the business district... and it was a very rare occurance when I had to park my car more than a block away. Parking is tight... but it's definitely not "terrible" if you know how to park in the city.
Bloomfield is a fantastic value because it's tucked in between some of the most important and exciting neighborhoods in Pittsburgh... you can easily walk, bike or take a bus to Oakland, Lawrenceville, Shadyside, etc. The neighborhood and environs are seeing a lot of investment, business growth and development. Bloomfield has a solid anchor with its "lifer" population combined with the dynamism of young professionals, grad students, gays, and yes... hipsters. The neighborhood has strong "community character"... featuring parades, festivals, farmers markets, church events, etc. all year long. The business district features a lot of interesting restaurants, small Italian grocers, fun bars ranging from Lot 17 to Nico's karaoke, coffeeshops, one of the last remaining DVD rental shops, record store... and very quick access to the best grocery stores in the city... Market District and Whole Foods. Bloomfield is one of the most centrally-located neighborhoods in the East End... there are so many urban assets within easy reach. And I never once had a problem with crime... or felt threatened.
My only negative concerning the neighborhood... is that much of the housing is quite ugly on the exterior... particularly south of Liberty. I love density and rowhouses... but many Bloomfield houses are covered in hideous mid-century sidings... and are certainly several tiers below the rowhouses in Lawrenceville, South Side, North Side, etc. If Bloomfield had those kind of rowhouses... with the strengh of its business district and proximity to Oakland and Shadyside... it would be blowing through the roof.
You have to take their mechanistic approach with a grain of salt, but still I think it is fair to say Bloomfield is one of the top few most walkable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh--and again, a lot of the notable alternatives would be a lot more expensive.
Speaking of Walk Score, they are trying to tweak their methodology so that they only report things that are actually walking distance (no interstates and rivers in the way, sidewalks exist, measurements use actual walking routes rather than "as the crow flies" etc.)
Speaking as a former Bloomfield resident, in some ways it's the most typical Pittsburgh neighborhood. It lacks attractive housing, but it also lacks decayed vacant property, missing teeth, and general residential blight. The commercial area is solid, but not hip. The neighborhood isn't seriously unsafe, but there's some minor property crime. It's got great bus access, but terrible parking.
I'd go so far to say if you have a major issue with Bloomfield, you just don't like cities, because it's about as solid a working-class urban neighborhood with a commercial main street can be. The only things "better" are totally gentrified, or residential areas which might as well be in the suburbs - neither of which are really characteristic of the urban experience.
I think you could argue that Downtown, Deutschtown, and the South Side Flats are all better or equal to Bloomfield, and also maintain the urban experience. I'd agree that Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, and Lawrenceville either feel much less urban, or way more gentrified. I like visiting gentrified neighborhoods, but I don't like them as a place to live. Most of the businesses along Butler Street are not places I would frequent on a regular basis. When I lived in Bloomfield I could hit the bank, get a haircut, go to the dollar store, drop off some mail, and pick up some groceries all in one big swing.
That new Walkscore methodology is definitely smarter (although it still can't seem to find Frick Park from my house).
By the way, I agree the housing stock in Bloomfield is overall subpar by the standards of the nicer East End neighborhoods, which of course is really the only thing keeping it affordable enough to mention in this thread in the first place.
Bloomfield is a fantastic value because it's tucked in between some of the most important and exciting neighborhoods in Pittsburgh... you can easily walk, bike or take a bus to Oakland, Lawrenceville, Shadyside, etc. The neighborhood and environs are seeing a lot of investment, business growth and development. Bloomfield has a solid anchor with its "lifer" population combined with the dynamism of young professionals, grad students, gays, and yes... hipsters. The neighborhood has strong "community character"... featuring parades, festivals, farmers markets, church events, etc. all year long. The business district features a lot of interesting restaurants, small Italian grocers, fun bars ranging from Lot 17 to Nico's karaoke, coffeeshops, one of the last remaining DVD rental shops, record store... and very quick access to the best grocery stores in the city... Market District and Whole Foods. Bloomfield is one of the most centrally-located neighborhoods in the East End... there are so many urban assets within easy reach. And I never once had a problem with crime... or felt threatened.
I agree that access is probably the best thing about the neighborhood. While in most ways I liked moving to Lawrenceville, it does feel more off the beaten path. It's still as easy to bike downtown, but there's only one bus option (well, two now if you're going to Oakland), as opposed to the half-dozen in the Bloomfield/Friendship area. And it's noticeable how much longer it takes me to drive out to areas like Squirrel Hill or the East End now.
Never had a crime issue there too. I have since moving to Lawrenceville, but mainly petty theft, like lights stolen off my bike. The worst was a generator we unwisely left unsecured on our back steps overnight.
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Originally Posted by Evergrey
My only negative concerning the neighborhood... is that much of the housing is quite ugly on the exterior... particularly south of Liberty. I love density and rowhouses... but many Bloomfield houses are covered in hideous mid-century sidings... and are certainly several tiers below the rowhouses in Lawrenceville, South Side, North Side, etc. If Bloomfield had those kind of rowhouses... with the strengh of its business district and proximity to Oakland and Shadyside... it would be blowing through the roof.
Sadly, you can't polish a turd, and those houses are undoubtedly turds. You'd need a neighborhood with South Side levels of demand to really see a major push to fix them up.
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Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday
I think you could argue that Downtown, Deutschtown, and the South Side Flats are all better or equal to Bloomfield, and also maintain the urban experience.
Downtown is very urban, but still not really a "neighborhood" yet.
Deustchtown has some nice houses, but East Ohio street has a long way to go before it even approaches the levels of Bloomfield on Liberty Avenue. Tons of vacant storefronts, and very low-usage businesses. It's also pretty unsafe.
South Side is way, way more gentrified than Lawrenceville. My wife was gentrified out of her old place - she used to pay $475 a month for a one-bedroom apartment, her landlord sold the building, it was converted into condos with essentially no rehab, with her unit selling for $178,000!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday
I'd agree that Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, and Lawrenceville either feel much less urban, or way more gentrified. I like visiting gentrified neighborhoods, but I don't like them as a place to live. Most of the businesses along Butler Street are not places I would frequent on a regular basis. When I lived in Bloomfield I could hit the bank, get a haircut, go to the dollar store, drop off some mail, and pick up some groceries all in one big swing.
Only Lower Lawrenceville is really like that along Butler Street. Central is much more mixed as more of the local businesses survived the period it was a blighted neighborhood. Also, the residential, although coming along, isn't really fixed up to the extent that you'd think if you only looked at Butler Street.
Speaking of Walk Score, they are trying to tweak their methodology so that they only report things that are actually walking distance (no interstates and rivers in the way, sidewalks exist, measurements use actual walking routes rather than "as the crow flies" etc.)
I think you could argue that Downtown, Deutschtown, and the South Side Flats are all better or equal to Bloomfield, and also maintain the urban experience. I'd agree that Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, and Lawrenceville either feel much less urban, or way more gentrified. I like visiting gentrified neighborhoods, but I don't like them as a place to live. Most of the businesses along Butler Street are not places I would frequent on a regular basis. When I lived in Bloomfield I could hit the bank, get a haircut, go to the dollar store, drop off some mail, and pick up some groceries all in one big swing.
Deutschtown better than Bloomfield? I don't think Deutschtown comes anywhere close to Bloomfield. Deutschtown is superior to Bloomfield in the important category of "attractive housing" (but most neighborhoods beat Bloomfield there)... and Deutschtown is walkable to Downtown and PNC Park(though I prefer Bloomfield's walkability to Lawrenceville and Shadyside and the fun and functional amenities of the East End).
Deutschtown's E. Ohio St. pales in comparison to Bloomfield's Liberty Ave. E. Ohio has improved in recent years... but is a pretty weak collection of businesses and there isn't anywhere near the level of pedestrian activity you find on Liberty. Bloomfield has a strong primary business district... and is surrounded by business districts like Penn Ave., Butler St., Baum/Centre, Walnut St., East Liberty, etc... so there's easy access to hundreds of restaurants and bars, grocery stores, ethnic markets, Target, gyms, parks, etc. Deutschtown has the "Dirty Bird".
Deutschtown is much smaller in population and is surrounded by a number of depopulated, decayed or stagnant neighborhoods... and the mid-century monstrosity of Allegheny Center. It has much less "community infrastructure". There is an interstate highway that blasts right through the heart of Deutschtown... and the eastern half of the neighborhood is one of the most decayed, rundown areas in the city.
If I were to come up with a "tier" system of Pittsburgh neighborhoods... Bloomfield would be Tier 2 behind the obvious "star" neighborhoods (extreme functionality, demographic dynamism, great location, attractive housing, amenity-rich, bustling pedestrian activity, etc.). Deutschtown would probably be Tier 4... which would be middle-of-the-pack in my unrealized subjective ranking (while recognizing its upward trajectory and potential).
I probably sound really negative on Deutschtown... but I love the neighborhood and think it has a lot of potential in the near term. West Deutschtown... along with Mexican War Streets and Allegheny West... has some of my favorite housing in the city. But I think Bloomfield offers an urban lifestyle far more functional and exciting than anything on the North Side.
...
South Side Flats is one of the city's "star" neighborhoods, and in many ways is superior to Bloomfield. South Side has an extremely large business district, though the negative externalities of the party district can be a turn-off for some. One major advantage Bloomfield has is that it's surrounded by other great neighborhoods in the East End... which is the largest collection of high-quality urban lifestyle in the city. South Side Flats is awesome, but somewhat isolated in comparison. The Slopes are neat but don't offer anything to "do" other than walk the steps. And the hilltop neighborhoods are quite troubled. South Side's bridge connections to Oakland are pretty harsh for a pedestrian or biker. And then there's nothingness to the east as you head into the Mon Valley twilight zone.
...
Downtown is not fair to compare to other neighborhoods as its a much different type of place due to the mega-concentration of regional employment. But I would still probably rather live in Bloomfield/East End than Downtown unless I had some sweet high-rise unit that cost a fortune.
Sadly, you can't polish a turd, and those houses are undoubtedly turds. You'd need a neighborhood with South Side levels of demand to really see a major push to fix them up.
Bloomfield between Liberty and the Busway, and west of Mathilda entirely is mostly an ugly mix and match patchwork of houses. That I agree with, but some of them do look nice, and I'm not *that* negative on the housing stock. It doesn't hold a candle to most city neighborhoods, let alone the other desirable ones. But they aren't exactly outhouses either.
Honestly, I think some clean siding, window-sill flowers, a nice door, and a removed Pittsburgh Awning can do wonders for those places. And as was said, many of them (but not all) are unexpectedly nice on the inside.
Quote:
Deustchtown has some nice houses, but East Ohio street has a long way to go before it even approaches the levels of Bloomfield on Liberty Avenue. Tons of vacant storefronts, and very low-usage businesses. It's also pretty unsafe.
I wouldn't say there's tons of vacant store fronts on E. Ohio.
I went to Deutschtown's site and they show 31 businesses on the big map, and then another 56 when you zoom into E. Ohio Street. Which does not seem to be full of vacant store fronts.
Quote:
South Side is way, way more gentrified than Lawrenceville. My wife was gentrified out of her old place - she used to pay $475 a month for a one-bedroom apartment, her landlord sold the building, it was converted into condos with essentially no rehab, with her unit selling for $178,000!
I'm not sure I equate gentrified with merely becoming expensive. I was basically trying to say that Lawrenceville has gentrified in a much "trendier" fashion than the South Side. Even though the South Side definitely has trendy businesses, it also has a lot of functional ones. That's not to say that Lawrenceville is devoid of them though, just that they seem to be playing a smaller role in the business district.
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Originally Posted by Evergrey
Deutschtown has the "Dirty Bird".
I hardly think Bloomfield can claim to have a superior grocery store.
If you are counting Shadyside Giant Eagle Market District, you may as well count the Strip District for Deutschtown.
I agree with both of you about Bloomfield having the best connections, though. It can stand on it's own, but it's the icing on the cake that it is so near to some other great neighborhoods.
I went to Deutschtown's site and they show 31 businesses on the big map, and then another 56 when you zoom into E. Ohio Street. Which does not seem to be full of vacant store fronts.
Go there yourself and check it out please. We drive/bike through the area fairly often. Out of all the commercial zones I frequent, it's most similar to Garfield - except Garfield has some great galleries and other businesses now. East Ohio has the Priory. Most of the "gentrified" businesses are off of East Ohio, in the neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday
I'm not sure I equate gentrified with merely becoming expensive. I was basically trying to say that Lawrenceville has gentrified in a much "trendier" fashion than the South Side. Even though the South Side definitely has trendy businesses, it also has a lot of functional ones. That's not to say that Lawrenceville is devoid of them though, just that they seem to be playing a smaller role in the business district.
Then you're misusing the term gentrification. It means the gentry (upper-middle class, more or less) take over a neighborhood. There's a pretty set progression too.
Stage 1: Either artists (looking for cheap housing so they don't need to get day jobs) or gay men (who want nice houses cheap, have plenty of time to fix them up, and don't give a crap about local schools).
Stage 2: Young hip people more generally, which trends into...
Stage 3: Yuppies.
South Side has clearly stepped into Stage 3 now. My wife's old friends have pretty much left, their bars have been taken over by meathead brahs, and all the galleries are long since gone. It's increasingly a place for Google employees and people with CMU-related startup jobs.
Lawrenceville isn't as far along quite yet. As I said, don't just look at the LOLA ****. Unlike South Side, there's still a fair amount of blight, and a huge amount of unrestored housing, once you get off Butler Street. We might be where South Side is now in another 10 years, but I don't think the exact character of the neighborhood will be copied.
When it comes to saftey Bloomfield probably has more crime than Dutchtown, but IMO it's way safer to walk through Bloomfield at night than to strole in East Dutchtown after dark...
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