Pgh Jobs- Too may Highly Qualified,not enough jobs (Pittsburgh: student loans, pharmacists)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Journalism used to be a blue-collar job that you apprenticed for. You started out as a copy editor, and if your editor like the cut of your jib, you'd slowly get to write articles and work your way up in a paper.

I think you mean copy boy, not copy editor.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

A few members of my family don't possess college degrees and they are millionaires. You can still get ahead without a degree in this country if you can develop a good idea into a successful business.

For sure. Ever hear of Fox's Pizza? Jimmie Fox, no college, multi-millionaire. Good buddie of mine, dropped out of college and is a multi in RE.

It can still happen.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by Copanut

For sure. Ever hear of Fox's Pizza? Jimmie Fox, no college, multi-millionaire. Good buddie of mine, dropped out of college and is a multi in RE.

It can still happen.

It can but its become harder as more people demand more education even for rather basic jobs which could be learned rather easily without spending years in school (even many higher level jobs are simpler now because computers now do a lot of the computations). Unfortunately this higher education demand has made it a lot harder for lower income and many in the middle to move up and many studies show its now harder than ever for lower and middle income people to move up in income levels.

[Clint.]

An important distinction that needs to be appreciated when citing examples of successful business people in the context of who needs a college degree is founding and running your own business vs. working at someone elses business. Unless it is an industry that requires licensure that is itself tied to formal education or some sort of approved credentialing, then as long as you have a good plan, can secure funding, etc., no one cares where you went to school or what you studied. I agree that a run of the mill college education is overvalued. Liberal arts degrees especially. Maybe if there was a time when earning a degree showed a person knew how to think, but these days those things are a dime a dozen (well, they cost more than that, but if anyone with half a brain is willing to pay a bunch of dimes they can get one of their very own, too).

Everyone I work with has at least a bachelors in something, and they are all equal in dullness; anyone of average intelligence could do my job, but employer requires a BA or BS. Ridiculous. Actually, it is not so much the employer, but the state because it is state funded work. It's still ridiculous, but rather than corporate it's state bureaucracy and going for the easy answer.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The "Big Four" will hire you straight out of college as long as you plan to get your CPA, which they will assist you in getting. I'm pretty sure you see a nice salary boost, too, once you secure your CPA. PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Deloitte both have major presences in Downtown Pittsburgh. I have a friend who works for PwC in Northern NJ and may be able to pull some strings if you're interested.

I may have mentioned it here but I did apply and get an interview for a temporary job this winter with PwC and their Wealth Management Tax Services but unfortunately I didn't get it. From what some of my friends has said, a lot of the Big Four want you to even have the 150 before they even hire you now so you can just take the test and quickly get certified instead of it taking a few years because of classes while working then taking the test. However, I've heard it's a lot easier to get a job as an internal accountant for a company or work for a bank with just a Bachelor's in accounting (and supposedly they pay more and it's a little less stressful) Do you think your friend would have any Pittsburgh PwC connections (My cousin used to live in New Jersey and I went there a lot, so I know that area isn't for me)? While I didn't get the job, I still do like PwC and the people I have met who work there and think it would be a good company to work for.

Up until 2 years ago, you could still get a CPA in PA with only 120 credits but now you need the 150. The part that bothers me about it is while they raised the number of total credits you need, the number of those that have to be from accounting were left the same which I think is completely stupid(I'll graduate with enough accounting credits they require). Essentially if I wanted to, I could take rock climbing and yoga classes at CCAC to get to the 150 credits which shows how stupid it is to change the total number of credits needed while leaving the amount needed in accounting and business the same.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

A few members of my family don't possess college degrees and they are millionaires. You can still get ahead without a degree in this country if you can develop a good idea into a successful business.

The problem with this is that starting a business takes capital. Whether you have it on hand or you need to take out a loan, an idea will remain an idea if you do not have any money to make it happen. I personally would love to be an entrepreneur. G-d knows I've worked for enough of them who hemorrhaged money down the drain in their businesses because they ran them so badly. However, it just will not happen as long as I am living paycheck to paycheck like I currently am.

The second issue is that many new ventures fail. According to this, only 44% of business remain in existence 4 years after they were founded. Let's be generous, and say that your business has a 50/50 chance of success. At least with a college degree, your odds are more favorable in regards to whether or not your debt is going towards something worthwhile.

I agree that entrepreneurship can be a work-around towards success without a college degree. However in reality it's only really feasible is you have access to the resources (including money and business acumen) to even have a chance to be successful. In that sense, it's not an option for everybody.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by eschaton

1. In the early 1800s, you could become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer without going to college. The Ivies were feeling like they would develop into irrelevant finishing schools for the wealthy due to this, so they developed the modern division of undergraduate and graduate education.
2. Journalism used to be a blue-collar job that you apprenticed for. You started out as a copy editor, and if your editor like the cut of your jib, you'd slowly get to write articles and work your way up in a paper. It wasn't until the 1960s that Journalism took off as a major - Bob Woodward and Carl Brownstien, famous for breaking open Watergate, were among the first generation of college-educated journalists.
3. As I said MBAs have proliferated. In 1971, only 26,490 were given. In 2010, 182,139 were. In contrast, Master's level degrees in core academics (Humanities, Social Sciences, Natural Sciences) only increased by around 28% (from 86,000 to 110,000), which pretty much tracks with inflation. Take a look at this chart for more details.

The worst part is, for the most part, people don't need these degrees. Studies have shown that general intelligence (IQ) matters far more for job performance than prior education or work experience, and 1-2 years of on-the-job training are all people need for the vast majority of professions.

Basically we pay money to get these degrees to look better than the competition. The problem is, the competition also gets these degrees, which over time requires a new degree to be added to up the ante. Hence why many professions which formerly required no college degree now require it, and in many cases are beginning to move towards only accepting people with a graduate degree.

Something needs to be done in the longer run to correct this. I think if we had a national aptitude test for work, which would be the primary means employers would select for applicants, it would help a lot. At the very least, we'd all spend less money on semi-useless certifications.

Everything you say is absolutely true. The problem is, if you do not choose to play the game (and earn the degrees), then you make things harder on yourself. Especially when you are just starting off your career and looking for someone to give you a chance.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The "Big Four" will hire you straight out of college as long as you plan to get your CPA, which they will assist you in getting. I'm pretty sure you see a nice salary boost, too, once you secure your CPA. PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Deloitte both have major presences in Downtown Pittsburgh.

I've heard that the bonus for passing the CPA Exam at PwC is around $5,000. The big benefit is that after a few years of experience you can get promoted to Senior, but only if you have passed the exam. People who don't pass the CPA exam generally leave the firm, because they don't get promoted from the associate level.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I think you mean copy boy, not copy editor.

You're probably right. I had a friend who was a "copy editor" for the Village Voice, however, and it wasn't very prestigious or high paying.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Clint.

Everyone I work with has at least a bachelors in something, and they are all equal in dullness; anyone of average intelligence could do my job, but employer requires a BA or BS. Ridiculous. Actually, it is not so much the employer, but the state because it is state funded work. It's still ridiculous, but rather than corporate it's state bureaucracy and going for the easy answer.

About seven years back, a friend of mine in NYC worked as an assistant at a nonprofit. They were looking at hiring a "research assistant" whose job would be basically finding articles on the internet. They got so many applications in her boss asked her to throw any in the trash which didn't have at least a Masters degree.

That's what degrees are. A filter. A really expensive filter.