Downtown: Bus-free? (Washington, Liberty, McDonald: restaurants, buses, moving)

[Debbie1125]

Originally Posted by simetime

Does this have anything to do with the increasing number of expensive condos downtown who owners may not want (working/poor) people hanging around their homes?

You beat me to it. I've been thinking the same thing. The number of residents living downtown has increased. Many of the condos and apartment buildings have bus stops in front of the buildings.

So maybe the business owners aren't the only ones complaining.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by simetime

Does this have anything to do with the increasing number of expensive condos downtown who owners may not want (working/poor) people hanging around their homes?

I'm doubtful. The places which have the most condos now are the Cultural District, and to a lesser degree FirstSide. Buses would still have to touch on these areas I think, because they're right by busy thoroughfares. In contrast, the core area downtown is mainly offices and other businesses, with few residences.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

This is a fairly bad idea. Sure, let's make it more difficult for those of us who take public transportation and make it a little easier for those with cars to get in and out of town a few minutes quicker. Aren't we trying to get more people to use public transportation to ease congestion? How about cracking down on the cars who illegally idle along Grant or Sixth waiting to pick people up? I've seen them cause at least as much congestion as the buses. And I agree about the delivery trucks in the morning. They serve to bottleneck traffic on Liberty which adds a few minutes to everyone's commute. I don't know why they can't make those deliveries before 6 am.

Start adding 5-10 minutes to bus riders commutes and those cheap lots up at the old civic area site and in the strip may start to look more attractive. After all, a zone one pass runs about $100/month and is usually only marginally cheaper than some of the cheaper lots.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As I said upthread, if the "bus-free" area looks like this, it's not that big of a deal at all. Every bus that has stops within the "core" could have their stops routed in a loop around Liberty/Boulevard of the Allies/Grant. Even those at the very center (Fourth and Wood) would have to walk three blocks top to get to any stop. Bus routes would be nominally longer, since some buses which barely touched downtown before might have to do a nearly full circle, but that's not that big of a deal.

Thanks for making that map; it really illustrates just how much the specifics of this matter. If they do indeed wind up doing what you illustrated, then this is a marketing failure. That's not a "bus free downtown"; if anything that would make downtown more accessible by bus as you can get off anywhere on the loop and all downtown destinations are within easy walking distance. As it stands many buses just barely scoot into downtown for a block or two and head right back out.

[UKyank]

Apparently there's a bunch if lazy people that can't fathom walking a couple blocks. It would probably do you good if you did so everyday.
Outside of the small percentage of people with severe disabilities that could be accommodated I don't see a problem with some exercise

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Apparently there's a bunch if lazy people that can't fathom walking a couple blocks. It would probably do you good if you did so everyday.
Outside of the small percentage of people with severe disabilities that could be accommodated I don't see a problem with some exercise

I don't think it's about walking a couple blocks. It's about walking a couple blocks to the bus stop in your neighborhood; then waiting 5 or 10 minutes for the bus (on a good day), then taking half an hour to go maybe 4 or 5 miles into downtown (possibly standing room only), then walking another few blocks to the office. All that takes some time and a little bit of effort. The more time or effort that bus commuting takes, the more likely it is that people will choose to drive, despite the cost of gas and parking.

So speaking for myself; it's not a matter of not wanting to walk in general. It's a matter of not wanting to add another 5 or 10 minutes to my commute twice a day.

[PghYinzer]

Is the point of this to remove buses so there is less congestion for easier commute by cars? No. The point is to remove buses so there is less sidewalk congestion, street congestion, noise and air pollution so downtown is more people friendly.

I guess I am for it since the closest bus stop to my office is on Ft Pitt and Smithfield and I have to walk around 4 blocks after getting off the bus no matter what. This would only have a positive impact on my life since my time spent walking around downtown would be so much nicer not having to deal with buses in the core of downtown.

Heck if they made the ride from Station Square to downtown free on the T I would be all for them ending bus routes there, because at least the T has a stop close to my office. Again I am a net gainer in this entire situation so I am most likely in the minority.

[brandrei1]

At first I was against this idea also of moving the buses out of downtown....but I think it is a good idea, but the reasons behind the change is what gets me a little riled up......whenever I drive through downtown, it is the other cars that are causing the congestion on the streets.....the people standing at the bus top in front of mcdonalds has not hurt their business one tiny bit....everytime I walk by mcdonalds they are jammed packed in there.....I always take the T from Allegheny to Gateway and then walk around downtown that way and never get on a bus...but I also have not done this during the winter when it is cold and snowy....maybe we should also move the parking garages further out of downtown (except for resident parking garages)....lastly I have not seen any of these "dregs" that other people are saying on here, as a white person I have only had good experience while waiting for the bus, if I need to go to Oakland

[pman]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I don't think it's about walking a couple blocks. It's about walking a couple blocks to the bus stop in your neighborhood; then waiting 5 or 10 minutes for the bus (on a good day), then taking half an hour to go maybe 4 or 5 miles into downtown (possibly standing room only), then walking another few blocks to the office. All that takes some time and a little bit of effort. The more time or effort that bus commuting takes, the more likely it is that people will choose to drive, despite the cost of gas and parking.

So speaking for myself; it's not a matter of not wanting to walk in general. It's a matter of not wanting to add another 5 or 10 minutes to my commute twice a day.

it's funny the way people criticize bus riders for not wanting to walk as they drive to their garage and walk across the skywalk. this may not apply to UK Yank but you these people exist.

Originally Posted by brandrei1

At first I was against this idea also of moving the buses out of downtown....but I think it is a good idea, but the reasons behind the change is what gets me a little riled up......whenever I drive through downtown, it is the other cars that are causing the congestion on the streets.....the people standing at the bus top in front of mcdonalds has not hurt their business one tiny bit....everytime I walk by mcdonalds they are jammed packed in there.....I always take the T from Allegheny to Gateway and then walk around downtown that way and never get on a bus...but I also have not done this during the winter when it is cold and snowy....maybe we should also move the parking garages further out of downtown (except for resident parking garages)....lastly I have not seen any of these "dregs" that other people are saying on here, as a white person I have only had good experience while waiting for the bus, if I need to go to Oakland

yes, is likely bad for mcdonald's business. it's worth remembering fitzgerald originally proposed actually eliminating bus service downtown, wanting everyone to transfer to a shuttle. a truly awful idea but it sounds like someone has talked him out of it and into a comrpomise. the reason to do it would be it saves PAT time and fuel not to remove bus riders from the sidewalk.

[pman]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

Is the point of this to remove buses so there is less congestion for easier commute by cars? No. The point is to remove buses so there is less sidewalk congestion, street congestion, noise and air pollution so downtown is more people friendly.

it will do nothing about pollution. to make downtown more people friendly you need to slow traffic down, widen sidewalks, and improve lighting. the easier it is for people to drive in and out, the less people friendly downtown will be

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

Heck if they made the ride from Station Square to downtown free on the T I would be all for them ending bus routes there, because at least the T has a stop close to my office. Again I am a net gainer in this entire situation so I am most likely in the minority.

it would add too much time and it's possible the T could not accomodate the traffic. nothing made more sense than the old trolley route across the smithfield st bridge into downtown