Cleveland OH day trip (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: chapel, credit, houses)

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by zman63

You know whats funny about this? The fact that cleveland is so much worse than pittsburgh, but has so much more revenue coming in. How do you figure that?

Cleveland city budget for 2013 was 1.3 billion dollars and they had a 50 million dollar surplus. Pittsburgh's city budget for 2013 was 460 million and either broke even or had a 3 million surplus max.

How is cleveland able to pay 176,000 for a public safety director, operate hopkins airport, and still show a 50 million dollar surplus? While people claim pittsburgh as all of these jobs and new people coming in but cannot pay its bills or come close to offering the same salary as cleveland. Pittsburgh charges 3 percent wage tax while the city of cleveland is 1 percent.

I am sorry I do not buy all of these feel good articles about pittsburgh being the greatest. Nor do I buy these articles stating cleveland is the worst.

How can you argue with experts! People who write news articles are experts! Especially according to you!!!

[PghYinzer]

Um......Cleveland has much more revenue coming in because they have a larger population?

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by zman63

You know whats funny about this? The fact that cleveland is so much worse than pittsburgh, but has so much more revenue coming in. How do you figure that?

Cleveland city budget for 2013 was 1.3 billion dollars and they had a 50 million dollar surplus. Pittsburgh's city budget for 2013 was 460 million and either broke even or had a 3 million surplus max.

How is cleveland able to pay 176,000 for a public safety director, operate hopkins airport, and still show a 50 million dollar surplus? While people claim pittsburgh as all of these jobs and new people coming in but cannot pay its bills or come close to offering the same salary as cleveland. Pittsburgh charges 3 percent wage tax while the city of cleveland is 1 percent.

I am sorry I do not buy all of these feel good articles about pittsburgh being the greatest. Nor do I buy these articles stating cleveland is the worst.

Huh? looks to me like Cleveland's budget for 2013 was 538.9 mil, on revenue of 491.8 million. according to their official books. given that the city pop. in Cleveland is higher, this is a lower budget per person than Pittsburgh's.

[zman63]

Originally Posted by _Buster

Huh? looks to me like Cleveland's budget for 2013 was 538.9 mil, on revenue of 491.8 million. according to their official books. given that the city pop. in Cleveland is higher, this is a lower budget per person than Pittsburgh's.

Cleveland Mayor releases budget for 2013 - 19 Action News|Cleveland, OH|News, Weather, Sports

[PghYinzer]

However to get this back on topic, I do agree that there is some great architecture in downtown Cleveland. I went there for work last Fall and stayed at the Arcade (not sure if that is the Renaissance or not) and it is an amazing building.

I also agree about the vast areas of parking, it is a strange feeling esp coming from Pgh since we have very little open land downtown, yet topography has driven these cities to grow in very different ways.

[wpipkins2]

Trimont and ohio city are wonderful neighborhoods. The public market building is nice. It appears to be a former train station. Trimont and Ohio City is comparable to shadyside minus Walnut St. I did see several smaller retail areas. The modern infill housing was top notch.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by zman63

Cleveland Mayor releases budget for 2013 - 19 Action News|Cleveland, OH|News, Weather, Sports

I don't know what number they are reporting there, but you need to compare the same things in each city. Usually people talk about the General Fund when they are talking about the budget. Cleveland's was about 538 mil, Pittsburgh's was 470 mil for 2013.

City of Cleveland budget hearings start Tuesday | wkyc.com

here is the official stuff

City of Cleveland :: Forms & Publications

2013 link, page 55



http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/mayor/2...dget_FINAL.pdf

page 26

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

However to get this back on topic, I do agree that there is some great architecture in downtown Cleveland. I went there for work last Fall and stayed at the Arcade (not sure if that is the Renaissance or not) and it is an amazing building.

I also agree about the vast areas of parking, it is a strange feeling esp coming from Pgh since we have very little open land downtown, yet topography has driven these cities to grow in very different ways.

The Arcade is the Hyatt Hotel. The arcade itself is architectual gem. The sun lit glass topped atrium is beautiful. The empty retail store fronts reminds me of our union trust building. Sad to see under utilized spaces like that. We will never build beautiful buildings like that again.

[pman]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

However to get this back on topic, I do agree that there is some great architecture in downtown Cleveland. I went there for work last Fall and stayed at the Arcade (not sure if that is the Renaissance or not) and it is an amazing building.

I also agree about the vast areas of parking, it is a strange feeling esp coming from Pgh since we have very little open land downtown, yet topography has driven these cities to grow in very different ways.

or perhaps it was the land value tax. actually cleveland is a lot more typical of the midwestern urban landscape than pittsburgh...and even older america in general. detroit and cleveland both have insane amounts of downtown surface parking. those two cities are very close cousins. pittsburgh is somewhere between them and the east coast in terms of landscape. to be honest, i found cleveland behind milwaukee in terms of being a desirable place to live. their downtown really ccouldnt have gotten much worse than it was ten years ago without ceasing to exist

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by pman

or perhaps it was the land value tax. actually cleveland is a lot more typical of the midwestern urban landscape than pittsburgh...and even older america in general. detroit and cleveland both have insane amounts of downtown surface parking. those two cities are very close cousins. pittsburgh is somewhere between them and the east coast in terms of landscape. to be honest, i found cleveland behind milwaukee in terms of being a desirable place to live. their downtown really ccouldnt have gotten much worse than it was ten years ago without ceasing to exist

The rail service puts Cleveland way ahead of milwaukee in my opinion. Milwaukee has some nice modern infill though.