Let's talk about Wilkinsburg! (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: rent, houses, neighborhoods)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Hopes

And yet Wilkinsburg is still a vibrant town.

Meh. I think "vibrant" is a bit strong. It certainly has an exciting future ahead of it, especially as East Liberty/Larimer/Bakery Square blossom in the coming years. Right now I look at Wilkinsburg and think "loads of potential".

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

It's not that I "refuse" to notice a middle-class or upper-middle-class African-American community in East Liberty. It just seems like whenever I'm finding myself walking up and down Penn Avenue inside Penn Circle in the evenings I see mostly lower-middle-class African-Americans, probably from Homewood, Garfield, and Larimer, standing around. It seems like if you sit and people watch on Walnut Street in Shadyside 9 out of every 10 people you'll see are upper-middle-class-looking white people. If you sit and people watch on Penn Avenue inside Penn Circle in East Liberty it seems like 9 out of every 10 people you'll see are lower-middle-class-looking African-Americans---the "sagging baggy pants crowd" vs. the "dressed in khakis (with a belt) and a polo shirt for a night out on the town crowd". Why isn't there a more highly-visible presence of the latter in Pittsburgh? Do they mostly live in Penn Hills, Wilkins Township, and Monroeville? I'm trying to handle myself with as much tact as possible on this obviously very touchy subject, but where is Pittsburgh's African-American-dominated version of Walnut Street or DC's U Street Corridor? Where would you find people like Colin Powell or Bill Cosby wanting to hang out here? If you're a socioeconomically successful African-American family in Pittsburgh it just seems to me like your options are more limited here than in many other major cities, and given that Wilkinsburg is mostly intact yet vastly underutilized it seems like a good "clean slate" to fulfill that need of being a solid black-owned middle-class and upper-middle-class business district.

Not a huge fan of Capri Pizza for a myriad of reasons---the architecture, the food, and more. I'll admit I forgot about the Kelly Strayhorn Theater and Social Status, though, so for that I do apologize as both are assets. Never heard of Jamil's Global Village, so I'll check it out. These places are just so drowned out, though, by Aaron's, pawn shops, check cashing places, vacant storefronts, Yen's (never really that great on many fronts), the hideous-looking bank buildings, and other low-rent businesses that ideally don't belong on Penn Avenue inside the circle.

If I people watch in Polish Hill or Bloomfield what would I see? Walnut Street is Pittsburghs answer to Georgetown so thats not a fair comparison. My family and many others frequent Walnut Street. Cosby types frequent the Prince Hall in Wilkinsburg or the Serenity spa in Penn Hills. We have sit down dinners at Simmies Seafood in Homewood. Lots of cosby types on Fridays. We enjoy jazz at Galaxy Lounge, Savoy, CJs, or the Rivers Club in Oxford Center. We watch our children ballroom dance at Jack n Jill functions or attend golf outings with the F.R.O.G.S. The black middle class love church. Attend services at Mt. Arrott, Petra International Ministries, Ebeneezer Baptist, Pentacostal Temple, or Covenant. Take a good look at the cars in the parking lots.....

Most of Pittsburgh's black middle class live in the eastern suburbs. Most of the businesses that cater to our needs are located there. We do have black dentist, doctor offices, real estate companies, contractors and so on that cater to us.

You cannot compare Pittsburgh or most american cities to the DC metro. DC is the exception and not the norm......Comparing Pittsburgh to Chocolate City is silly.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Every time I've been at Biddle's Escape (in Wilkinsburg) I've been surrounded by 100% other white people, which made me presume that west of the busway was predominantly white. Maybe I've just caught them at odd times? Whenever I've been generally up Montier Street or Graham Boulevard I've mostly just seen African-American people. When patronizing businesses on Penn Avenue in Downtown Wilkinsburg it seems like 80% of the people around me are African-American, while the town is not 80% African-American (about 2/3). Perhaps Wilkinsburg truly is very well-integrated along racial lines, as you say it is, but that's just not been my experience. I'm hoping revitalization of Penn Avenue will lead to more interracial mingling.

I know from experience Beacon Hill is very well integrated, but then again that's pretty much a middle-aged suburban compound plopped into the edge of the borough. I didn't know enough about Blackridge to comment one way or the other, as I always presumed the majority of that development was split between Penn Hills and Churchill.

A black person from Blackridge, Beacon Hill, or the Mcnary/ Graham section of Wikinsburg wouldnt be caught dead on Penn Ave. Thats what Monroeville is for. I patronize the businesses but my wife wont drive through it let alone get out of her car. Middle and upper middle class blacks do not mix with poorer blacks....except for the few hours during Sunday church services. We dont shop, eat, or drink together. Never have.

[wpipkins2]

I should add that Wilkinsburg has the best Carribean/Jamaican food. The best!

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I should add that Wilkinsburg has the best Carribean/Jamaican food. The best!

Please tell me more. I'm in need of some new cuisine to try

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Meh. I think "vibrant" is a bit strong. It certainly has an exciting future ahead of it, especially as East Liberty/Larimer/Bakery Square blossom in the coming years. Right now I look at Wilkinsburg and think "loads of potential".

It is vibrant. It's more vibrant than East Liberty. Let's give credit were it's due. Wilkinsburg didn't need redevelopment to jumpstart a busy business district.

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I should add that Wilkinsburg has the best Carribean/Jamaican food. The best!

Where? Details! Details!

[Hopes]

Uptown says there is an extremely dangerous part of Wilkinsburg. Wpipkins says it's the most diverse part of the Pittsburgh metro. We recommend North Point Breeze and it's right next to Homewood. We recommend Friendship and it's right next to Garfield. Heck, we even recommend Garfield sometimes. There's no reason to not recommend Wilkinsburg when it's entirely possible to live near a dangerous area. Wilkinsburg is perfect for urban pioneers, artists, hipsters, diversity seekers, etc. The only thing it's not appropriate for families with children because the school district; however, some families willing to send their children to private schools or even the city's charter schools might like what Wilkinsburg has to offer.

[eschaton]

I see Wilkinsburg as basically today where the Lower North Side was 10 years ago. It's roughly the same mixture of black and white, gentrifiers and poor. It's got the same mixture of stunning architecture and blight. The same juxtaposition of community spirit and unfortunately high violent crime. Local neighborhood schools in both places are considered completely unacceptable to the white (and the non-poor black) population. The Regent Square section of Wilkinsburg plays the role the Mexican War Streets/Allegheny West played in terms of being the wealthier white enclave, which is slowly expanding out over more and more of the borough.

Obviously the actual built structure of Wilkinsburg is highly different. The housing is newer, more streetcar suburban in orientation. And the surviving business district infrastructure beats the pants off anything in the North Side. But with some luck, the area could arrive, despite the crime/school issues, with the next decade.

[Moby Hick]

Wilkinsburg is dry. That's a huge barrier to if you want to attract more restaurants or me.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by zman63

Wilkinsburg = skid row

Sure it is vibrant with prostitution, poverty, dope dealers, beggars, meth tweakers, squatters and enough crime to make an hour long episode of COPS.

Funny that you would say that. In the early 90's, COPS did a couple of episodes in Pittsburgh, and two kids from Wilkinsburg (in two separate incidents) were on the show. There is no doubt that Wilkinsburg has some serious crime problems. However, as others have said, the borough is large, and there are sections that have fairly low crime, and are considered to be desirable places to live.

I'll address a few comments that I've seen made in this thread.

The op said that Wilkinsburg is vibrant. I wouldn't say that, but there has been a lot of redevelopment efforts, and while the progress has been slow, there has been improvement.

Is Wilkinsburg diverse? I would answer that by saying, yes and no. The borough as a whole is very diverse, but the sections that are considered desirable, are almost exclusively white, and middle class. The people from the desirable sections, almost never interact with the rest of the community.

Wilkinsburg's future? I've been one of the member on here that has consistently said that Wilkinsburg has enough potential, that it is likely to see meaningful improvement in the coming decades. If the Pittsburgh area grows in the future, it would be foolish not to develop the East Busway corridor. Wilkinsburg is just minutes up the busway, and Penn Ave. from East Liberty. So I would say that the more East Liberty improves, the more likely it is that Wilkinsburg will see an increase in demand.