Planned Chaos Proposed for Downtown (Pittsburgh, Liberty: 2015, houses, neighborhoods)

[Kippy]

Is a transportation free-for-all coming to Pittsburgh

From the article:

The concept, called shared space, removes traffic signals, signage, crosswalks, lane markings and curbs, setting up a sort of free-for-all plaza where pedestrians, drivers and cyclists must watch out for one another.

To me, this sounds like crazy talk! Why would we want to emulate the traffic patterns, or lack there of, of cities like Cairo?

[tclifton]

Wow...talk about idiotic.

The idea emerged after several dozen participants visited the intersection of Liberty, Stanwix, Forbes Avenue and Penn Avenue on Monday and watched what charitably could be described as mayhem, with pedestrians and bicyclists darting across streets without regard to crosswalks or traffic lights.

How about enforcing the laws that exist so that pedestrians and bicyclists learn NOT to dart across streets without regard to crosswalks or traffic lights lest they get a ticket just like people in cars do?

Or is that an invalid option because a cyclist once saw a car go over the speed limit?

[UKyank]

I thought this was an Onion article

[gg]

Originally Posted by tclifton

Wow...talk about idiotic.



How about enforcing the laws that exist so that pedestrians and bicyclists learn NOT to dart across streets without regard to crosswalks or traffic lights lest they get a ticket just like people in cars do?

Or is that an invalid option because a cyclist once saw a car go over the speed limit?

I agree laws should be enforced for all. I think police need to be able to nab speeding cars with radar as well. The selfish people speeding around in their cars are very dangerous considering they are driving a weapon of mass destruction on all levels.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by tclifton

Wow...talk about idiotic.



How about enforcing the laws that exist so that pedestrians and bicyclists learn NOT to dart across streets without regard to crosswalks or traffic lights lest they get a ticket just like people in cars do?

Eh. You need to remember that we live in a city where people feel "entitled" to jaywalk and that drivers need to watch out for THEM. The amount of times I need to blare my horn at pedestrians who illegally walk across Sixth Avenue or Seventh Avenue when I'm trying to turn left from Grant with a dedicated left-hand turn arrow is mind-boggling. I routinely receive all sorts of "bitter beer faces" when I dare not stop to wave jaywalkers across Murray Avenue in Squirrel Hill (never mind the fact that there are marked crosswalks everywhere they could be using on that street).

I jaywalk too, of course, but I would NEVER enter a street without first making sure I wouldn't be inconveniencing an oncoming vehicle or cyclist in doing so. The amount of people who "beach" themselves in the middle of Murray Avenue because the lane closest to them was clear, and then expect YOU to stop so they won't be in the way, is aggravating.

Couple this with the several shouting matches I've had in the last year with drivers honking at me for refusing to turn onto a side street until pedestrians (with the right-of-way) in my path had cleared, and I'm learning people here just have no clue about how to walk, bike, OR drive.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by tclifton

How about enforcing the laws that exist so that pedestrians and bicyclists learn NOT to dart across streets without regard to crosswalks or traffic lights lest they get a ticket just like people in cars do?

I have no idea if this particular plan will work in this place or not, but it really is amazing how if even small areas are set up to make it so that drivers have to pay more attention to people getting around by other means, it's a huge threat to some people.

And what percentage of drivers who break the law get a ticket for not yielding in a cross walk? I see it done every day and I've never seen a ticket given even if the police are right there.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

And what percentage of drivers who break the law get a ticket for not yielding in a cross walk? I see it done every day and I've never seen a ticket given even if the police are right there.

When was the last time you saw a Pittsburgh police officer citing a CMU student for jaywalking across Forbes Avenue?

[eschaton]

This is absolutely fantastic, but Downtown is the worst place to do this.

You can read more about the idea in links here, here, here, and here.

The problem is, these models tend to be used in Europe in dense residential neighborhoods with narrow streets. I've been thinking Pittsburgh needs streets of this type for awhile, but it should really be premiered in neighborhoods like South Side, Lawrenceville, and Central North Side (starting with the "alleys" with lots of houses on them).

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

When was the last time you saw a Pittsburgh police officer citing a CMU student for jaywalking across Forbes Avenue?

I've never seen that either. My point is that if the current laws were enforced against either drivers or pedestrians, I think the system would collapse under the weight of citations and complaints. Demanding that all pedestrians behave according to the law while implying that drivers somehow are is absurd.

As far as I know, the only enforcement against pedestrians happens after somebody gets hit. The last push was several years ago. Pitt police do patrol Fifth Avenue during morning rush hour, especially at the start of the year. They target drivers and I think it plays an important role in keeping the university area walkable.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I've never seen that either. My point is that if the current laws were enforced against either drivers or pedestrians, I think the system would collapse under the weight of citations and complaints. Demanding that all pedestrians behave according to the law while implying that drivers somehow are is absurd.

Relevant.