Planned Chaos Proposed for Downtown (Pittsburgh, Liberty: college, live in, costs)

[gg]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The amount of times I need to blare my horn at pedestrians who illegally walk across Sixth Avenue or Seventh Avenue when I'm trying to turn left from Grant with a dedicated left-hand turn arrow is mind-boggling.

I think you need to realize it isn't "entitled", it is moronic. I really feel people are just getting dumber and dumber. I believe it mostly started with the invention of the Internet and social media. People are focused on every negative happening that is going on in the USA with its 300,000,000++ people and they lost themselves in the media hype that is promoting shock value to sell advertising. I don't believe most people can cope with this new news feed and it makes people dumb and they completely lose common sense. I can't believe what I see pedestrians do these days in comparison to just 15 or so years ago. They just seem to be walking cluelessly. Society as a whole are just getting dumber, so we just have to get used to it. I don't believe the people you are referring to are just walking around "entitled", they are walking around as dumbed down as our government/top 1% seems to want us to be. Salivating over a screen that feeds us garbage. Garbage in, garbage out.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I have no idea if this particular plan will work in this place or not, but it really is amazing how if even small areas are set up to make it so that drivers have to pay more attention to people getting around by other means, it's a huge threat to some people.

And what percentage of drivers who break the law get a ticket for not yielding in a cross walk? I see it done every day and I've never seen a ticket given even if the police are right there.

Yep, right on cue. Rather than look at and address the actual issue discussed in the article of pedestrians and bicyclists routinely ignoring traffic laws, let's ignore that and obfuscate to shift all attention and blame back to the evil car drivers. Well done.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by gg

I agree laws should be enforced for all. I think police need to be able to nab speeding cars with radar as well. The selfish people speeding around in their cars are very dangerous considering they are driving a weapon of mass destruction on all levels.

I'm convinced the only thing you can get pulled over & cited for when driving downtown is driving in the bus lane.

Run a red light, eh; blow through cross walks, whatever; speed, meh; throw your four ways on & park in traffic, why not; but don't you dare set one tire on that bus lane or were on you in a second.

[eschaton]

Moralizing about who is at fault here is silly. Human beings are not perfectly rational. Most of the time that we're traveling (whether driving, riding a bike, or walking) many are somewhat distracted and not paying attention to everything which is around us. This is particularly true if we are traveling along a well-worn path for ourselves, like a work commute. Good street planning takes this into account, creating unconscious cues which make us more vigilant, rather than just concluding that it's up to us to buck up and pay attention.

In the end the models of traffic flow where all forms are segregated have been a failure, insofar as there is still congestion for drivers, and still pedestrian accidents/fatalities. If another system is possible which reduces injuries/deaths, and apparently doesn't actually slow down traffic, why not try it?

[gg]

Originally Posted by tclifton

Yep, right on cue. Rather than look at and address the actual issue discussed in the article of pedestrians and bicyclists routinely ignoring traffic laws, let's ignore that and obfuscate to shift all attention and blame back to the evil car drivers. Well done.

Every single day is see countless car drivers selfishly going way over the speed limit with their weapon of mass destruction. Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. Speeding cars KILL others. How many pedestrians killed someone by walking too fast? How many cyclists in Pittsburgh killed someone by cycling like a moron? NONE! Lets keep things in perspective shall we. For the record, I honk my horn and try and educate the idiot pedestrians out there doing dumb things, but I don't think they will ever get it. They are really just too dumb.

[Tiger Beer]

I'm personally in favor of more pedestrian streets.

What a lot of European cities do is just allow a certain main street to be all pedestrian - filled with musicians, entertainers, etc. The other streets can have cars, and whatever else. But, having one pedestrian street is really key to a lot of vibrancy.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by tclifton

Yep, right on cue. Rather than look at and address the actual issue discussed in the article of pedestrians and bicyclists routinely ignoring traffic laws, let's ignore that and obfuscate to shift all attention and blame back to the evil car drivers. Well done.

I don't think pedestrians and bicyclists routinely ignore traffic laws to any greater extent than drivers. Do you have a citation for your repeated assertion otherwise? And I think we should worry more about enforcing the law on people who are controlling the larger, more damaging vehicles. It isn't obfuscation, but actual relevant argument in support of the idea that automobile traffic in current patterns shouldn't be assumed as given.

The closest I've ever come to dying was legally crossing Fifth Ave with the light at Halkett. I've seen that light run so many times that I'm glad my office got moved so that I don't have to cross it anymore. Certainly there are pedestrians who do dangerous things, but it is absurd to think that if pedestrians were obeying the laws, they would somehow be safe. Lots of citations for that point.

Drivers Are at Fault in Most Pedestrian Deaths, Study Reports - NYTimes.com


Also, you should really read eschaton's links as they are very informative. Especially the one marked "Relevant".

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I'm convinced the only thing you can get pulled over & cited for when driving downtown is driving in the bus lane.

Run a red light, eh; blow through cross walks, whatever; speed, meh; throw your four ways on & park in traffic, why not; but don't you dare set one tire on that bus lane or were on you in a second.

I agree. Maybe reckless driving if someone is really doing wild things with their vehicle, but for the most part no one cares.

[norcider]

Town is already chaos with or without cyclists. I've lost track of how many times I've nearly been killed by somebody running a light or turning where they weren't supposed to. Don't get me started on PAT.

[UKyank]

A good example: http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/PDF/Exhibitio...monitoring.pdf

Though I think the area proposed in the PG article is a terrible idea for such a plan