Pittsburgh interest level in Cavaliers? (2015, layoffs, income)

[Merge]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Lots of people come to the games outside of Pittsburgh and know Crosby has been number 1. That's why the parking lots are full.

Correct. Stats don't lie. 400 sellouts and 104 points for Crosby 2 seasons ago.

Number of Hart trophies is how your judging? He just won 1, 2 seasons ago. Nobody has won 2 in the last five years, lol.

Who do you feel is the best player in the world in hockey if you're using Hart trophies as your standard?

This thread is supposed to be about the cavs, and not Sidney Crosby, so this will be my last comment here about him.

Crosby has played two full seasons in the last five years. In the other three he missed AT LEAST half the games his team played in. I'm not going to get into a discussion here about who I think is the best (for the above mentioned reason. You just need to know that it is ludicrous to consider a guy who only plays halftime to be among the best in the league. Seems to me like you never left 2009.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by safak

i don't think hes top 10, not sure why you assume otherwise.

doesn't change the fact hes still the biggest name in the league.
No not if you ask hockey enthusiests but the other 99.9% of america, ask them to name 3 NHL players and if, (thats a huge if) they can, one will be crosby.

Not top 10? Not if you ask hockey enthusiasts?

Those that think otherwise to Crosby being one of the top 10 can only be watching the Pens and checking on the scoring leaders.

Those that actually know hockey would take him top 5 right now all day. Every coach and gm would want him on their team tomorrow.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Merge

This thread is supposed to be about the cavs, and not Sidney Crosby, so this will be my last comment here about him.

Crosby has played two full seasons in the last five years. In the other three he missed AT LEAST half the games his team played in. I'm not going to get into a discussion here about who I think is the best (for the above mentioned reason. You just need to know that it is ludicrous to consider a guy who only plays halftime to be among the best in the league. Seems to me like you never left 2009.

I expected that response after seeing you base your hockey knowledge and the best player in the world off of Hart trophies in the last 5 years.

As to the Cavs or an NBA team, if you need to fill that void, it's a short trip to Cleveland to see them. NBA league pass is also an option.

I recall 2013-14 when he won the Hart Trophy. I left 2009 seeing him hold the Cup.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by safak

SO basically have penguin type of luck and get michael jordan, then kobe bryant, watch attendance plummet to last in the league and team threaten to move when the stars leave, then get handed lebron james.

The Penguins threatened to leave when their new arena deal with Isle of Capri was rejected by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board in 2006. It had ****-all to do with fan support, regardless of what hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh claim. If fan support was why the Penguins threatened to leave, then why didn't they just leave in 2004, when attendance bottomed out? Nothing was stopping them then. Why did they even bother with plans for a new arena in Pittsburgh? There were all sorts of other cities with modern arenas that they could have moved to. Why did they wait until 2006, when attendance was increasing, to start saber rattling about relocation? This myth about the Penguins threatening to move because of poor fan support needs to ****ing die already, because it's not true.

The old Civic Arena was the alpha and omega of the Penguins' problems from 1998-2007. It was the oldest arena in the NHL and wasn't even designed for hockey in the first place, and during the 1990s the Penguins had the most expensive lease of any team in the NHL for the displeasure being shoehorned into the arena. Howard Baldwin stupidly agreed to the lease when he owned the team, and just a few years later the Penguins had to declare bankruptcy. Gee, what a coincidence. I'm sure that's the fans' fault, right? And after the city of Pittsburgh had their budget crisis in 2003 that put any new arena assistance on hold, the Penguins hitched their wagon to Isle of Capri. Why did they even bother doing that if fan support was the root of all their problems? It doesn't add up.

Speaking of fan support, attendance cratered for one whole season (2003-2004), right after an off-season in which the Penguins had a massive fire sale of what little talent they had left at the time. But therein lies the rub. Outside of that one season, the Civic Arena was literally never less than 87% full on average in any given season between 1989-1990 and 2009-2010, and it was at least 90% full on average in most seasons. In fact, 2003-2004 was more than three standard deviations below mean Penguins attendance during that period of time, which made it an outlier, a quintessential aberration in a set of data spanning 21 seasons. That season was nothing but noise amid the signal. Too bad hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh are so fixated on the noise that they haven't detected the signal illustrating that Penguins attendance fluctuations were quite normal otherwise, by NHL standards.

By the way, you know one thing that never fluctuated? Local TV ratings for Penguins games. Even when the team bottomed out in the early 2000s, TV ratings remained stable and strong. Yeah, Penguins fans were so uninterested in the team that they kept watching them on TV anyway. Face it; many (most?) hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh are utterly clueless about the ordeal the Penguins dealt with from 1998-2007, and the fact that they blame fan support only proves how clueless they are.

[erieguy]

This^^^^.

It's near impossible to explain a sport to fans that don't follow a sport. Ones definition of the best player in hockey has Carey Price as the best player in the world.

Perhaps an NBA team in town would help alleviate some of the animosity towards other 'burgh teams, unfortunately it just won't survive.

[Copanut]

Agreed about Mario threatening to move the Pens, he had no intention of doing that, just wanted to **** off the County. And I don't blame him. He asked for a new arena 7 years before it started construction. Found a deal from the Isle of Capri that would have built it for FREE and was turned down. Apparently the Dems couldn't get enough of a kickback to do that. In contrast, 16 months after the Rooneys asked for a stadium, it was completed. Marion saved hockey in this town 3 times. Prior to his coming hockey was a niche sport, while he was here you started seeing kids playing in the streets and more ice rinks being built. He's probably had the most direct impact on this area of all the athletes in this city.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Found a deal from the Isle of Capri that would have built it for FREE and was turned down. Apparently the Dems couldn't get enough of a kickback to do that.

Kickback? It was to use casino taxes instead of property taxes. That was the whole point of having a casino as far as I'm concerned.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Kickback? It was to use casino taxes instead of property taxes. That was the whole point of having a casino as far as I'm concerned.

Only a politician would turn down something free.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Only a politician would turn down something free.

But it wasn't free. It was giving a license for gambling away and instead of getting tax relief for it, you got a hockey stadium. It was the same as spending tax money directly on the stadium.

[safak]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

The Penguins threatened to leave when their new arena deal with Isle of Capri was rejected by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board in 2006. It had ****-all to do with fan support, regardless of what hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh claim. If fan support was why the Penguins threatened to leave, then why didn't they just leave in 2004, when attendance bottomed out? Nothing was stopping them then. Why did they even bother with plans for a new arena in Pittsburgh? There were all sorts of other cities with modern arenas that they could have moved to. Why did they wait until 2006, when attendance was increasing, to start saber rattling about relocation? This myth about the Penguins threatening to move because of poor fan support needs to ****ing die already, because it's not true.

The old Civic Arena was the alpha and omega of the Penguins' problems from 1998-2007. It was the oldest arena in the NHL and wasn't even designed for hockey in the first place, and during the 1990s the Penguins had the most expensive lease of any team in the NHL for the displeasure being shoehorned into the arena. Howard Baldwin stupidly agreed to the lease when he owned the team, and just a few years later the Penguins had to declare bankruptcy. Gee, what a coincidence. I'm sure that's the fans' fault, right? And after the city of Pittsburgh had their budget crisis in 2003 that put any new arena assistance on hold, the Penguins hitched their wagon to Isle of Capri. Why did they even bother doing that if fan support was the root of all their problems? It doesn't add up.

Speaking of fan support, attendance cratered for one whole season (2003-2004), right after an off-season in which the Penguins had a massive fire sale of what little talent they had left at the time. But therein lies the rub. Outside of that one season, the Civic Arena was literally never less than 87% full on average in any given season between 1989-1990 and 2009-2010, and it was at least 90% full on average in most seasons. In fact, 2003-2004 was more than three standard deviations below mean Penguins attendance during that period of time, which made it an outlier, a quintessential aberration in a set of data spanning 21 seasons. That season was nothing but noise amid the signal. Too bad hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh are so fixated on the noise that they haven't detected the signal illustrating that Penguins attendance fluctuations were quite normal otherwise, by NHL standards.

By the way, you know one thing that never fluctuated? Local TV ratings for Penguins games. Even when the team bottomed out in the early 2000s, TV ratings remained stable and strong. Yeah, Penguins fans were so uninterested in the team that they kept watching them on TV anyway. Face it; many (most?) hockey fans outside of Pittsburgh are utterly clueless about the ordeal the Penguins dealt with from 1998-2007, and the fact that they blame fan support only proves how clueless they are.

Thats a lot of words to basically say you agree with me, the year we didn't have the biggest name in the sport everyone bailed. sure hope we keep them/get more!

as far as tv ratings they most definately did fluctuate. Obviously pittsburgh is great local tv ratings with the superstars, but in that 03-04 season they were 2.3 local. from their high a few years ago of 12.something (which has dipped 3 straight years now and is less than half of that this year)

thats a pretty big fluctuation (of course its the NHL where we have teams in places that 12 people watch so really a 2 isn't that bad!).

Like I said, its not a topic to harp on considering half the teams don't even score a 1, but just pointing out that point isn't grounded in reality.