East Pittsburgh police shoot teen in back (Sewickley, Bell Acres: wealthy, racism)

[stremba]

Originally Posted by Enough_Already

Based on the law I saw posted here, I do not see how this is a crime at all. The refers to threat to "others". I would not feel safe in a person involved in a drive by shooting was running around my neighborhood.

It was reasonable for the police to conclude this person was involved in a drive by shooting. He could not know if he was the actual shooter or not. He also could not know if he was armed. It is reasonable to conclude he was a threat to "others". The politicians are falling all over themselves to appease the voters who elect them and in one case further some future ambitions.

The only way I can see for a conviction based on the law as written, and not on inflamed "Let's get this pig"-type jury sentiments, would be that the prosecution might argue that the shooting was not necessary to arrest Rose and that he could have caught him in some other manner. The law does state that deadly force can be used if a suspect has committed or attempted to commit a forcible felony AND that deadly force is necessary to prevent the suspect from defeating arrest by fleeing or resisting.


Keep in mind that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. With that in mind, the first part of that standard is almost certainly met. A reasonable police officer would likely conclude that he had probable cause to arrest Rose in relation to the prior shooting. That is certainly a forcible felony, and there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the cop was incorrect in believing that Rose was involved in that forcible felony.


The second standard likely also is met, but at least here I can see an argument. Could Rose have been apprehended without deadly force despite his fleeing from the cop? While an argument could be made, again the burden in on the prosecution. A simple defense of "He ran faster than I could" likely would be enough generate reasonable doubt and win an acquittal. Additions such as "I had no access to a taser" and/or "He was out of taser range", etc. would probably lend further reasonable doubt to the prosecution's case.

[Enough_Already]

Originally Posted by stremba

The only way I can see for a conviction based on the law as written, and not on inflamed "Let's get this pig"-type jury sentiments, would be that the prosecution might argue that the shooting was not necessary to arrest Rose and that he could have caught him in some other manner. The law does state that deadly force can be used if a suspect has committed or attempted to commit a forcible felony AND that deadly force is necessary to prevent the suspect from defeating arrest by fleeing or resisting.


Keep in mind that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. With that in mind, the first part of that standard is almost certainly met. A reasonable police officer would likely conclude that he had probable cause to arrest Rose in relation to the prior shooting. That is certainly a forcible felony, and there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the cop was incorrect in believing that Rose was involved in that forcible felony.


The second standard likely also is met, but at least here I can see an argument. Could Rose have been apprehended without deadly force despite his fleeing from the cop? While an argument could be made, again the burden in on the prosecution. A simple defense of "He ran faster than I could" likely would be enough generate reasonable doubt and win an acquittal. Additions such as "I had no access to a taser" and/or "He was out of taser range", etc. would probably lend further reasonable doubt to the prosecution's case.

There is also the part of the law which talks about threat to others. To me someone who was involved in a drive by shooting shortly before who is now running from police is a threat to others.

If he is not convicted I expect the protest to tun into riots.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Enough_Already

Mayor Peduto writing letter to judge about bond for officer charged in teen's death

This is none of his business and is way out of line. This is very self-serving.

So in short, its typical Peduto.
He was even out in East Pittsburgh, along with Fetterman, trying to mediate between the County Police and the protesters. (source: Group protesting police shooting block Tri-Boro Expressway | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - image 3)

Fetterman is running for a state office, so I can see how he may have relevancy there.
Pedutohead - what the heck is he doing out there??

[Enough_Already]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

So in short, its typical Peduto.
He was even out in East Pittsburgh, along with Fetterman, trying to mediate between the County Police and the protesters. (source: Group protesting police shooting block Tri-Boro Expressway | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - image 3)

Fetterman is running for a state office, so I can see how he may have relevancy there.
Pedutohead - what the heck is he doing out there??

Bike Lane Bill is all about making a national name for himself. Meanwhile this is the worst I have seen the city run in my life. This situation has nothing to do with him and he should stay out of it.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Enough_Already

Mayor Peduto writing letter to judge about bond for officer charged in teen's death

This is none of his business and is way out of line. This is very self-serving.

Wow. In general I think Peduto is okay and does an okay job, but openly bullying a judge in this manner? I find that pretty bold and maybe could be viewed as persuasion in a capital case. Will be interesting if an attorney has a statement regarding Peduto doing that prior to the trial. Geez.

Could be grounds for a mistrial if the officer loses as it looks as though Peduto is interfering with the trial prior to a jury being selected. This one might need to be moved out of Allegheny County in the end due to this move by Peduto.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by gg

Wow. In general I think Peduto is okay and does an okay job, but openly bullying a judge in this manner? I find that pretty bold and maybe could be viewed as persuasion in a capital case. Will be interesting if an attorney has a statement regarding Peduto doing that prior to the trial. Geez.

Could be grounds for a mistrial if the officer loses as it looks as though Peduto is interfering with the trial prior to a jury being selected. This one might need to be moved out of Allegheny County in the end due to this move by Peduto.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
You think a jury in western Pennsylvania, outside of Allegheny County, is gonna convict this officer?

Not a chance.

[Enough_Already]

Originally Posted by gg

Wow. In general I think Peduto is okay and does an okay job, but openly bullying a judge in this manner? I find that pretty bold and maybe could be viewed as persuasion in a capital case. Will be interesting if an attorney has a statement regarding Peduto doing that prior to the trial. Geez.

Could be grounds for a mistrial if the officer loses as it looks as though Peduto is interfering with the trial prior to a jury being selected. This one might need to be moved out of Allegheny County in the end due to this move by Peduto.

I have lived in the area most of my life and from what i see, this is the most poorly managed the city has been during that entire time. Bike Lane Bill has an agenda which does not coincide with the best interest of the people. Much of downtown is a mess. Who is deciding about traffic patterns downtown?

In any case, what Bike Lane Bill has done in this situation is borderline misconduct. The ironic part of this would be if there is a mistrial because of what Bike Lane Bill did, he might have done significant damage to the goals of the protesters.

[gg]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
You think a jury in western Pennsylvania, outside of Allegheny County, is gonna convict this officer?

Not a chance.

It is possible the trial would have to be moved due to the mayor's interference. The attorney is Pat Thomassey and he is no joke for sure. Very smart attorney and very seasoned. I would love to hear what he as to say about it, but if he is hush about it for now, it might be used later for a second trial. Peduto might be making a mistake, or is he? Maybe he would like it moved? I don't think he is thinking that far in advance, but I don't know what is on people's minds with all this going on in our city and non of it happened in our city in the first place.

If moved outside of Allegheny County the officer will be free to go, but will never be an officer again. I think his law career is over no matter what. That is what they did to officer Wilson over by St. Louis. Brown went for Wilson's gun most likely in a struggle, but they still took his career away. They will have to throw the protesters a bone somehow just to keep the peace. Of course in the end there is no peace with all these drive-by shootings that are and will continue to plague black neighborhoods. Shame, but what can anyone really do about them?

[Goinback2011]

I'm still waiting to hear the source of the millions in police overtime (Peduto's estimate) to escort the protestors. The news media is not asking the question, and this is also fishy. If, as I suspect, the source is a private organization, they should be hiring the police directly at rates they set.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

I'm still waiting to hear the source of the millions in police overtime (Peduto's estimate) to escort the protestors. The news media is not asking the question, and this is also fishy. If, as I suspect, the source is a private organization, they should be hiring the police directly at rates they set.

I think at this point the funds for protests are probably already allotted as there are protests going on most every week about something. All of this is just a byproduct of the Internet as small groups can find each other for their causes. This type of thing is our new life since little groups have a voice and they tend to shout over moderate thinkers. If you look at the Internet in general, it is more about extreme voices than anything moderate, so it creates a divide that wasn't their in such numbers prior to the Internet being used to promote one's agenda. People will claim, "oh but the divide was there before the Internet". Sure it was there with the extremists, but now we have the extremes gaining popularity, so it is INCREASING! That is the difference. Small numbers of extremists are one thing, but if they grow, that is another.

One of the reasons I really need to get out of the city. Just a pain in the butt anymore being around all the heartache types complaining about everything. Such a downer!