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but why would anyone travel through the strip from the suburbs. when would this be best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
There is lots of congestion in the Strip during rush hour, with most of the people turning off on the 16th Street Bridge or the 31st Street Bridge. The logical conclusion would be they're crossing the river to go to the North Hills or thereabouts. I dunno why they don't just take 28 the whole way, but some people develop irrational dislikes of certain highways and avoid them.
Because I work downtown. The limited bus service through Etna is somewhat unreliable - so I drive to work. However, I don't make enough money to pay to park downtown. So I park in the Hill and walk from the Hill to my office.
Going home, I drove through the Hill and then take Herron down through Polish Hill. Getting to the 40th St Bridge from the intersection of Herron and Liberty is annoying (almost as annoying as trying to merge onto 28 from the stop sign at the top of the onramp from the 40th St Bridge) - so instead I go to the 31st St Bridge to get onto 28.
And on days that I need to get my son from his mom's house in Shaler, I go up Rialto St to go via Mt Troy Rd -> Peoples Rd -> Babcock -> Thompson Run Rd to get to Shaler.
There actually is a reason to go from the Strip to the suburbs. And given that at least one or two days per week the 31st St Bridge is already backed up the whole way across the Bridge and back into the Strip itself - I'd say that I'm far from the only one that uses it.
I think the poster was lamenting the loss of unique architecture for generic "boxy" modern edifices that are going up all over the country now.
I'm perfectly fine with a blend of old and new in our city overall, but there are a few cases where I've cringed. For example, that grand old (albeit blighted) Victorian at the corner of Grandview & PJ McArdle in Mt. Washington was torn down for---a modern boxy house. Meh. I would have preferred that the Victorian be restored while the modern boxy house be built elsewhere on one of the lots available for sale in Mt. Washington.
In the case of the Strip I don't think anything that is being demolished for progress is actually architecturally-significant. I still don't understand why the Heinz History center tore down a historic building fronting Penn Avenue behind their museum, though, since it's still just sitting as an ugly empty lot.
Because I work downtown. The limited bus service through Etna is somewhat unreliable - so I drive to work. However, I don't make enough money to pay to park downtown. So I park in the Hill and walk from the Hill to my office.
Going home, I drove through the Hill and then take Herron down through Polish Hill. Getting to the 40th St Bridge from the intersection of Herron and Liberty is annoying (almost as annoying as trying to merge onto 28 from the stop sign at the top of the onramp from the 40th St Bridge) - so instead I go to the 31st St Bridge to get onto 28.
And on days that I need to get my son from his mom's house in Shaler, I go up Rialto St to go via Mt Troy Rd -> Peoples Rd -> Babcock -> Thompson Run Rd to get to Shaler.
There actually is a reason to go from the Strip to the suburbs. And given that at least one or two days per week the 31st St Bridge is already backed up the whole way across the Bridge and back into the Strip itself - I'd say that I'm far from the only one that uses it.
I don't know why so many people on here give you a hard time about living in Etna and driving to work Downtown. Taking the bus, taking the train, walking, or biking is fine for ~50% of Downtown's workers. The other ~50% generally drive because transit is NOT more efficient/appealing for them. Hell, I walk almost everyday between Polish Hill and my office Downtown. Today I will be cutting it close for an appointment after work, though, so I needed to drive to have my car available to me. I'll grimace as I pay my $12 to park, but it is what it is.
I don't know what the answer is to remediate the current and future transportation issues in the Strip. In terms of Liberty Avenue I'm not sure I agree with one lane in each direction with a center turn lane. Does this mean that impatient people waiting behind idling buses that are picking up or letting off passengers will fly around the buses into the center turn lane to pass the buses, risking head-on collisions if opposing buses stop at nearly the same points along Liberty?
I like the idea of making Liberty Avenue three travel lanes with two lanes inbound during the AM rush and two lanes outbound during the PM rush (similar to the signage/signals on the 40th Street & Liberty Bridges). There SHOULD be enough room if you take out one travel lane to make the remaining three travel lines wider/safer. Some space from the removed travel lane could be used for a bike lane or for a sidewalk on the side of Liberty that is for some reason still missing a sidewalk.
People don't like the idea of making Penn Avenue one-way inbound and Liberty Avenue one-way outbound because it will encourage more speeding. I don't like the proposal of a center "suicide lane" with people weaving around buses. The current set-up where I'm nearly plowed over as a pedestrian and see cyclists having close-calls is also unacceptable. The lanes are also so narrow that if you try to pass a wide vehicle you're pretty much crossing the center line a bit, which could lead to mirrors being knocked off if someone in the opposing direction is also hugging the center line.
It is also a mindset, I did not grow up in the city. I've rarely used public transit and to me I only do so as a last resort. I like having control of my logistics and not relying on someone else. Only time I do use it is when I have meetings in DC and stay outside the city.
I don't know why so many people on here give you a hard time about living in Etna and driving to work Downtown.
The same reason that they give you a hard time about things - they live in bubbles and have superiority complexes. You and I have different perspectives than most on this board and we go against their preferred narrative - instead of giving any validity to our dissent from their orthodoxy, they find it easier to simply label us as haters or heretics or bigots and attempt to delegitimize our experiences and opinions.
Frankly, I don't think the buses should stop on Liberty Avenue in the Strip District. They should stop on Penn Avenue. Penn Avenue is not crowded during rush hour at all during the week at all - even in the morning - with most drivers picking Liberty or Smallman. In addition, most destinations that people would be going to on the Strip would be on Penn or closer to Penn than Liberty. In order to use it outbound you'd really need to convert Penn back into a two-way street, but this should be done anyway frankly, because the second lane is only really utilized when someone is trying to get around a driver backing into a space. Buses being redirected off Liberty would also speed up traffic on Liberty. Without buses stopping every few blocks outbound after all there really wouldn't be a need to pass stopped vehicles, since there's no parking on Liberty anyway.
Really it only would cause issues on the weekend, when the busy stretch of Penn Avenue can be a mess. But generally speaking bus service is less frequent on the weekends than during the week, so I think this isn't a big issue.
Frankly, I don't think the buses should stop on Liberty Avenue in the Strip District. They should stop on Penn Avenue. Penn Avenue is not crowded during rush hour at all during the week at all - even in the morning - with most drivers picking Liberty or Smallman. In addition, most destinations that people would be going to on the Strip would be on Penn or closer to Penn than Liberty. In order to use it outbound you'd really need to convert Penn back into a two-way street, but this should be done anyway frankly, because the second lane is only really utilized when someone is trying to get around a driver backing into a space. Buses being redirected off Liberty would also speed up traffic on Liberty. Without buses stopping every few blocks outbound after all there really wouldn't be a need to pass stopped vehicles, since there's no parking on Liberty anyway.
Really it only would cause issues on the weekend, when the busy stretch of Penn Avenue can be a mess. But generally speaking bus service is less frequent on the weekends than during the week, so I think this isn't a big issue.
So your solution would be to make Penn Avenue a two-way street? Interesting. I'm guessing parking would have to be eliminated on one side for this to happen as the lane width is already questionable through there. Not sure taking half of the street parking away from Penn Avenue would be viable or supported by most business owners there. I agree that it makes much more sense for buses to pick-up and drop-off along Penn Avenue than along Liberty Avenue. Would your proposal to make Penn Avenue two ways again be in addition to narrowing Liberty Avenue, or would Liberty Avenue stay as-is?
So your solution would be to make Penn Avenue a two-way street? Interesting. I'm guessing parking would have to be eliminated on one side for this to happen as the lane width is already questionable through there. Not sure taking half of the street parking away from Penn Avenue would be viable or supported by most business owners there. I agree that it makes much more sense for buses to pick-up and drop-off along Penn Avenue than along Liberty Avenue. Would your proposal to make Penn Avenue two ways again be in addition to narrowing Liberty Avenue, or would Liberty Avenue stay as-is?
I'm not sure why you'd need to eliminate parking on one side for Penn Avenue. Two travel lanes and two parking lanes is the norm in business districts in Pittsburgh (Butler, East Carson, Penn through Garfield, etc). Some individual spaces might need to be eliminated near corners to make room for buses to pull over though. It would mean the bike lane would never get extended up Penn beyond 16th, but with the new lanes on Smallman and Railroad Street now more or less extending down to the Convention Center I'm not convinced that needs to happen any longer.
If buses were re-routed away from Liberty, there is less reason to have a continual sidewalk outbound on Liberty, or to worry about how terrible the pedestrian crossings are, since there's nothing really utilized by pedestrians other than maybe Pittsburgh Ballet Theatre on that side of the street.
On the other hand, as I said, with no buses most of the reason you need to get around someone will have vanished. Honestly I think one lane - along with left turn arrows/lanes at key intersections (16th and 31st outbound, Herron and 28th inbound) - is probably enough.
I'm not sure why you'd need to eliminate parking on one side for Penn Avenue. Two travel lanes and two parking lanes is the norm in business districts in Pittsburgh (Butler, East Carson, Penn through Garfield, etc). Some individual spaces might need to be eliminated near corners to make room for buses to pull over though. It would mean the bike lane would never get extended up Penn beyond 16th, but with the new lanes on Smallman and Railroad Street now more or less extending down to the Convention Center I'm not convinced that needs to happen any longer.
If buses were re-routed away from Liberty, there is less reason to have a continual sidewalk outbound on Liberty, or to worry about how terrible the pedestrian crossings are, since there's nothing really utilized by pedestrians other than maybe Pittsburgh Ballet Theatre on that side of the street.
On the other hand, as I said, with no buses most of the reason you need to get around someone will have vanished. Honestly I think one lane - along with left turn arrows/lanes at key intersections (16th and 31st outbound, Herron and 28th inbound) - is probably enough.
The lane widths along Penn Avenue in the Strip seem to be too narrow to comfortably permit parking on both sides, as well as having enough room for opposing buses to safely pass each other. As it stands now it's difficult to pass a larger vehicle in an adjacent lane between, say, 22nd Street and 16th Street with vehicles parked on both sides, and I'm not driving a bus. Toss in confused tourists and suburbanites trying to parallel park their Ford Excursions in tight spaces, and I just feel like there would be a lot of close calls and bumped mirrors between opposing buses in the process.
A solution could be to have buses travel ONLY outbound on Penn Avenue and make ONLY outbound stops there and then have buses travel ONLY inbound on Liberty Avenue and make ONLY inbound stops there. In this sense all of the unpleasant/dangerous stops along outbound Liberty would be eliminated, and the inbound stops would all be along the safer side of Liberty with the wide sidewalk. There would be no need to worry about having pedestrians on the "bad" side of Liberty any longer.
I really like the idea of limiting left-hand turns from outbound Liberty Avenue to ONLY certain intersections---11th (which already has a dedicated turn lane); 16th (heavy access to I-279 North); 22nd (frequently used by people circling the main business district of the Strip looking for prime parking); 26th (wide street and close access to the tech companies moving to Smallman & Railroad); and 31st (heavy access to PA 28 North). I mean they already banned turning left from Liberty onto a couple of streets (28th Street being a biggie, and 14th is another, albeit many ignore that one). A left-hand turning lane from outbound Liberty Avenue to both 16th and 31st is crucial to somehow be added, as a lot of the evening congestion outbound occurs due to there being too many people queuing to turn left in a travel lane. Same with the inbound turn lanes at Herron Avenue and 28th Street.
Keeping Liberty Avenue hostile towards pedestrians and cyclists is unacceptable in my book. Pedestrians shouldn't have to worry about being creamed while crossing Liberty or the streets intersecting with Liberty, and cyclists are legally entitled to share the lane with motor vehicles in PA. I'm tiring of being 1/3 of the way into crossing a side street and have to worry about dodging a car that's turning left from Liberty Avenue at 35 miles per hour right into me in front of their opposing traffic that is traveling at 40-45 miles per hour. I'd like to see walk signals installed along Liberty Avenue through the Strip. I'd also like to see walk signals installed at Penn & 16th. A new crosswalk needs to be painted at Liberty & 16th.
I wasn't familiar with new dedicated bike lanes on Smallman Street starting at 11th Street. I'll have to look for them the next time I'm in that area. If Smallman Street will have a bike lane all the way up from 11th, then the city should eliminate the Penn Avenue bike lane, which would make it easier to restore two-way traffic to Penn.
P.S. For the love of God can someone put a roundabout at Liberty & 28th already? I'm tiring of having close calls with people impatiently flying out of Liberty Commons when they're supposed to be the ones yielding to all opposing traffic.
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