LESS than anemic job growth for region, #84/90 (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: transplants, apartment)

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by gladhands

I don’t think a lot of these posters have a realistic idea of what Pittsburgh is and can be, or what other cities are. They just want the Mills to come back. If you look at other metros with population and job growth, you will see that the growth lies in finance and information industries, and the service sector. There is no city with a preponderance of high wage/low education jobs. The people who can’t find livable wages in Pittsburgh won’t find them in Atlanta or Denver either. I found that many of the same people who bemoan the lack of high-paying jobs for low skilled workers are the same people who oppose living wages. We just don’t live in the 1960s anymore.

Please provide information on this please. We hear about how Pittsburgh is so much more of an educated population. People are moving to those other cities because they can make money there educated or not. People aren’t moving to Pittsburgh because there isn’t much money there and opportunity that’s the difference.

Originally Posted by rickms

It's a mess. Countless town built on industry long gone... awkward infrastructure... with most of these towns not easily accessible. It's a weight that will hold the region back for the foreseeable future.

You are probably right.

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by Joe_P

Identity yes. Vision, not so much.

What is it’s identity? You should be in charge of the Allegheny Conference then, because the lady in charge with “the keeper amazon secret bid” had no clue and couldn’t answer when asked. A guy from NYC is going to do it for her.

[Joe_P]

because the lady in charge with “the keeper amazon secret bid” had no clue and couldn’t answer when asked

That's unfortunate.

[216facts]

These year to year numbers can probably be dismissed as noise. I would look at 10 year trends to get some idea of how the region is going. In the end analysis, we're (CLE or PIT) not going to be Dallas or even Columbus any time soon when it comes to population growth or job growth. Those two examples (DAL and COL) do not have a CMU nor Cleveland Clinic nor PITT nor NASA Glenn, etc. But yet they add 10s of thousands or even 100s of thousands of people and jobs to their regions every year. Year after year, for decades.

My opinion, it is a momentum that is hard to catch up to or compete with. A momentum in providing the American dream that still commands the desire of most young people: the good job, the marriage, the house in the burbs, the cars, the kids, the good schools, etc. And Dallas and Columbus (to a lesser extent) manufacture this dream in the tens of thousands, every year. Most recent grads want a decent job, strong probability to find a spouse, and options for growth, an affordable apartment, an affordable house. Most employers want a large, young, educated workforce that is growing in size. Imagine the housing growth that HAS to occur to keep the Dallas job machine going year after year.

Its this competition/momentum that puts places like CLE and PIT at a pretty substantial disadvantage.

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by 216facts

These year to year numbers can probably be dismissed as noise. I would look at 10 year trends to get some idea of how the region is going. In the end analysis, we're (CLE or PIT) not going to be Dallas or even Columbus any time soon when it comes to population growth or job growth. Those two examples (DAL and COL) do not have a CMU nor Cleveland Clinic nor PITT nor NASA Glenn, etc. But yet they add 10s of thousands or even 100s of thousands of people and jobs to their regions every year. Year after year, for decades.

My opinion, it is a momentum that is hard to catch up to or compete with. A momentum in providing the American dream that still commands the desire of most young people: the good job, the marriage, the house in the burbs, the cars, the kids, the good schools, etc. And Dallas and Columbus (to a lesser extent) manufacture this dream in the tens of thousands, every year. Most recent grads want a decent job, strong probability to find a spouse, and options for growth, an affordable apartment, an affordable house. Most employers want a large, young, educated workforce that is growing in size. Imagine the housing growth that HAS to occur to keep the Dallas job machine going year after year.

Its this competition/momentum that puts places like CLE and PIT at a pretty substantial disadvantage.

You are correct. Dallas is a nice city too BTW.

Pittsburgh has great press year after year, but the economic story remains the same. It’s a great region if you can live there and work remote. Like me, I live in the WV panhandle and work remote and get paid Chicago metro wages. That’s just how it is. I am an outlier and most people don’t get paid well in the region.

My company closed its Pittsburgh branch and just opened an office in Grand Rapids. I was able to visit there for the first time. The city is 2/3 the size of Pittsburgh and the metro area is half, yet it outperforms Pittsburgh and Cleveland in growth and new jobs. Young people there have money and they are happy. People want to stay. Lots of cranes and new building everywhere. If you don’t want to live south or west, Grand Rapids is an excellent choice. And Grand Rapids is nicer than Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

The last of the affordable growing cities in the eastern time zone left are in the Midwest such as Columbus, Grand Rapids and Indianapolis. The northeast including Pittsburgh are way too expensive for the job opportunities and growth available. New homes in the Pittsburgh area are 50 to 100K than those cities. It is insane.

People need to embrace Pittsburgh for what it is. You aren’t going to wave a magic wand there and create all of these good jobs. Some people are really happy living there and money isn’t important. Others continue to beat their head on the wall and don’t get it. I have a friend that complains about his pay, but won’t look for jobs in other cities because he doesn’t want to leave family. I tell him then he shouldn’t be complaining.

[erieguy]

It’s far easier to complain and blame everyone/everything else than it is to actually do something to better ones situation.

[Charley Barker]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

But isnt there something to be said about pushing the boundaries of what this area is and can be? I mean to say we should only strive for what we think are are worth, Brookline not Berkeley, isn't that perpetuating the dopey, parochial beliefs? As for building consensus, that only works with both parties want to move forward in some sort of fashion. Consensus for the sake on consensus is not worth it if the outcome of it is standing still or at least barely moving.

I agree it is a regional issue, but a lot of the region has it's head in the sand concerning a lot of things and also pines for a time/system/economy that no longer exists.

That's my point exactly. It takes leadership to form consensus. There are heads in the sand all over the place. I once heard a political scientist say that the power of politics is the power of persuasion. Yes, our national politics is polarized, ok, all F***ED up to be precise, but anywhere I have lived the division is minimized at the local political level. Dems and Reps and Inds tend to work together at the local level because stuff needs to get done. This is where a good leader builds consensus around the root causes and moves to coordinate action. From what I read mayors like Lawrence and Caliguiri (sorry if misspelled) were able to do this. I think the current mayor looks up to the national discord and reacts to that when he should be looking down at the local level and moving out from there. I think people are yearning "to move forward in some sort of fashion", but that doesn't ever happen without good leadership.

[PghYinzer]

Originally Posted by Charley Barker

That's my point exactly. It takes leadership to form consensus. There are heads in the sand all over the place. I once heard a political scientist say that the power of politics is the power of persuasion. Yes, our national politics is polarized, ok, all F***ED up to be precise, but anywhere I have lived the division is minimized at the local political level. Dems and Reps and Inds tend to work together at the local level because stuff needs to get done. This is where a good leader builds consensus around the root causes and moves to coordinate action. From what I read mayors like Lawrence and Caliguiri (sorry if misspelled) were able to do this. I think the current mayor looks up to the national discord and reacts to that when he should be looking down at the local level and moving out from there. I think people are yearning "to move forward in some sort of fashion", but that doesn't ever happen without good leadership.

I agree, but what are the ideas of the other side? Is there even another side in Pittsburgh? Republicans can’t even find a single viable mayoral candidate. Also, what city issues are not getting addressed due to this lack of consensus? The opposition seems to be just opinions of people with no elected power, so it is just noise at this point. I would say the things that aren’t getting accomplished are things outside of the city’s control, however he is at least trying to advance a narrative on those issues. As for past mayors, they built things or cleaned things up, not an easy task but far easier than driving economic changes and working on things like poverty.

[Charley Barker]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

I agree, but what are the ideas of the other side? Is there even another side in Pittsburgh? Republicans can’t even find a single viable mayoral candidate. Also, what city issues are not getting addressed due to this lack of consensus? The opposition seems to be just opinions of people with no elected power, so it is just noise at this point. I would say the things that aren’t getting accomplished are things outside of the city’s control, however he is at least trying to advance a narrative on those issues. As for past mayors, they built things or cleaned things up, not an easy task but far easier than driving economic changes and working on things like poverty.

I am talking about building regional consensus to address lagging job and wage growth, not just in the city. Pgh with 300K people and the rest of Alleg Co. with 800K represent less than HALF of the region. That's what the mayor always says, "it's out of my control", which is true of the status quo, but I am talking about a leader that can bring the region together rather than the "I wash my hands approach" that he seems to favor. I honestly think it is either a lack of imagination or political prowess on his part. With about 15% of the regional population, it's going to take heroic (read: unlikely) improvements in the city to make up for lackluster performance elswhere.

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by erieguy

It’s far easier to complain and blame everyone/everything else than it is to actually do something to better ones situation.

That is true.

This article from the PG today speaks volumes. Black folks can do better just by moving to another city. I don’t know how you can get more sobering than this. You either stay and embrace or move elsewhere to try and do better. And that holds true for everyone not just black folks.


https://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...s/201909170114

https://triblive.com/local/pittsburg...in-pittsburgh/