Old Pittsburgh (Duquesne, Manchester, Forest City: university, casinos, live)

[Copanut]

I agree that the location of the casino was ill advised. The Isle of Capri gave the best deal and location IMHO, but guess what, I'm not a politician that benefited by awarding the contract to a soon to be bankrupt corporation.

The infrastructure was there, Hill District residents could have walked to their jobs, the overall area would have improved.

Makes too much sense for a politician, especially in this town, to go along with it.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Don't get me started. There is a small group of people who have a vested interest in North Shore development. Through undue political influence, they not only located the casino there, but also directed a large amount of precious public transit funding to building a light rail line there, instead of the many other places it would have been better used.

Something that you and I agree on. When they announced the North Shore connector years ago my mouth dropped. Why all that money just to go to the stadiums? Do you think the fix was already in for the Casino?

On a selfish note, I'm still a Pirates fan and would love to live in the South Hills again to take the T directly to a ballgame. Did that 100 years ago via street car in the East.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Something that you and I agree on. When they announced the North Shore connector years ago my mouth dropped. Why all that money just to go to the stadiums? Do you think the fix was already in for the Casino?

I don't know about the timeline of the casino specifically, but the general plan to develop that section of the North Shore as a regionally-important leisure and tourism district (with stadiums, concerts, museums, hotels and so forth) has been in the works for a long time. The casino fits right into that plan, but again I don't the exact history of when they added a casino to the list of planned amenities.

[rr61]

Originally Posted by Mr. Humble

What a great post! So nice to have somebody talk the Lower Hill that lived there. Want a shock? Washington Pl, just a few doors from the Lyceum is where my father's family lived, too. Another thing that's great about Pgh is what a "small" big town it is. Earlier in the thread I found that I lived just a street below Nuwaver's pop in Garfield. I'm glad that you confirmed what I felt pretty sure about, that the Lower Hill "clearing out" swept a lot of whites out of the area too. I'm hestitant to get into race on this thread, because I don't want it to digress into a hateful black vs. white discussion, but just suffice it to say that I don't think it was a racial thing, but again, and as always an economic thing. Honestly, I'm incredulous, dismayed that in the 21st century this is still such a hot button to push. Anyway, thanks for jumping into this, and please stick around if you can.

You say you're back in Pittsburgh after twenty years? Crazy, because I left just about twenty years ago, as well. Do you live in the city, or did you go to one of the suburbs? The real question, I guess, is how did you find it? Are you disappointed? Does it break your heart that it's so different or do you find it an actual improvement?

And please, you gotta tell me about the Pittsburgh Lyceum and the fighters that stopped and talked with your dad. Some people may not know, but Pittsburgh was one of the greatest fight towns at the time. Guys like Billy Conn, Fritzie Zivic, Charley Affif, Lee Sala, and in the older times, Harry Greb, Sammy Angott, so many...

Mr Humble, I'm curious about your father's family living so close to where I lived. Were they still there in the early 50s? We were exactly 2 doors from the Lyceum. If they were there at the time I was alive, please send me a message if you don't want to give names here.

You mentioned the boxers. I remember some of them. Billy Conn and Fritzie Zivic were still coming around during my childhood. And Charlie ( with the un-PC nickname "*****" ) Affif had close relatives just up the street from us. I can't remember if he lived there during my time, but he was always around. (wow - the censor here would not allow the nickname , that's some pretty effective software )

My clearest memory of the Lyceum regulars is of Izzy Moidel. I'm sure a lot of the older readers here remember him from his days as the flamboyant referee on Studio Wrestling. He was a boxer in his younger days and is known for his victory over Rocky Marciano in an amateur bout in the Army. Pretty impressive since Rocky M went on to an undefeated pro career. Izzy was close with my family and I have memories of playing around with him - punching him in the belly, etc.

One more thing about the racial make up of the area. Within yards of each other were two Catholic schools - Epiphany on Washington and directly across from it thru a vacant lot was St Peter's on Fernando. They were both , I would guess, at least 90% white. And a short distance away, near Mercy Hospital, was Forbes Public School. I estimate it was about 80% white during my time there. When I pass there now and see a parking garage on the site of that beautiful big stone school, I am saddened. Further up the Hill just past the area that was destroyed for "urban renewal" were Miller and Letsche public schools. Most of their students were the black kids who lived closer to them. ( see my other post about the racial make up of the various streets that were destroyed in the 50s). Just emphasizing again how both races were forced to move for the arena and parking lots.

[sabbytabby]

Back in the late 70's we used to go see the Pittsburgh Spirit soccer team play at the Civic Arena, or fondly remembered as the Igloo. I got to meet the players once during a dinner cruise on the Gateway Clipper and was photographed with them. My favorite was Clive Charles. Twas a highlight that year. We also were Penguin hockey fans and was at the game when they switched their uniforms from blue and white to black and gold. My favorite players were Rick Kehoe and Ron Stackhouse. I used to love sitting at the fountain in Point State Park with 3 Rivers Stadium across the way. I found a baseball in the water once, could it have been???? I still have it.

[ghost123]

Originally Posted by Mr. Humble

Does anybody remember this little hole in the wall fast food place? Raywell's on the corner of Forbes and Wood, had the best kielbasa sandwiches, and for only about 40 cents.

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Kielbasa..yummmmmm..

[ghost123]

Originally Posted by Mr. Humble

A nice shot of the Lower Hill before they tore it down for the Civic Arena.

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Wow! - Nice posting. I've never seen that picture before The Civic Arena.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I agree that the location of the casino was ill advised. The Isle of Capri gave the best deal and location IMHO, but guess what, I'm not a politician that benefited by awarding the contract to a soon to be bankrupt corporation.

The infrastructure was there, Hill District residents could have walked to their jobs, the overall area would have improved.

Makes too much sense for a politician, especially in this town, to go along with it.

There was strong opposition to the casino from Hill District activists, but the death blow came when the president of Duquesne University came out, and said that a casino adjacent to the campus was totally unacceptable.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

There was strong opposition to the casino from Hill District activists, but the death blow came when the president of Duquesne University came out, and said that a casino adjacent to the campus was totally unacceptable.

That wasn't the death blow, the death blow was from Rendell whose palms weren't greased enough from The Isle of Capri. Do you really think that a casino within walking distance of Duquesne would have that negative effect on the campus?

Just follow the money. The casino ended up being bought out by a crony of the Governor.

[Johnland]

Well, all this talk of the casino makes me want to jump in.....I just got back from a week visiting in Pittsburgh, and saw the casino parking garage for the first time as we drove over the Ft. Pitt Bridge. All I can say is...O....M....G. what a piece of **** that is. What an utter waste of concrete, just for starters. There's enough concrete in that thing to fill all the potholes in the city. Does anyone else see the woeful misallocation of resources here??

Oh wait, other posters have already covered that....graft, cronyism, payola, monopoly licesences, state government 'economic planning'.......