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See, here's the problem: Israel is a sovereign nation. For this reason, we don't really have the right to judge her. Suppose someone in another nation judged the United States for our 19th century policy of Manifest Destiny. That was nothing more than an excuse to take over land we as a nation decided that we wanted. A land grab, in other words. And it wasn't uninhabited land, either. How many Native American tribes did we displace, if not exterminate? (But it was OK, because it was our "manifest destiny." Right?)
The problem with a lot of people posting here is that they're using Israel as a veil to disguise what they really mean to say: Jews.
Well the US surely judges other nations and have been in even the over throw of sovereign nations governments and an example would be Chile, Iraq, Panana, Grenada.
Anyway the concept of Manifest Destiny was not lost after the USA took sovereignity of California. It went beyond to places like the Philipines, Cuba, Puetro Rico, Panama, Haiti, Vietnam, Cambodia and Iraq.
I have no problem with Jews as an race and have several Jewish friends. However what pisses me off if anyone becomes critical of Israel they are labeled anti semetic.
Last edited by other99; 06-20-2010 at 05:44 PM..
Reason: edit
Well the US surely judges other nations and have been in even the over throw of sovereign nations governments and an example would be Chile, Iraq, Panana, Grenada.
Anyway the concept of Manifest Destiny was not lost after the USA took sovereignity of California. It went beyond to places like the Philipines, Cuba, Puetro Rico, Panama, Haiti, Vietnam, Cambodia and Iraq.
I have no problem with Jews as an race and have several Jewish friends. However what pisses me off if anyone becomes critical of Israel they are labeled anti semetic.
Then you must have a cogent well thought out explanation of how the dissolution of the State of Israel will make the world a better place. What is it?
Then you must have a cogent well thought out explanation of how the dissolution of the State of Israel will make the world a better place. What is it?
Well the situation is very complicated as Israel was created as a safe haven of the holocaust survivors of World War 2. Anyway most Israelis have not been born during that era. Anyway the middle east borders were largerly drawn by Europeans at the end of World War 1 as Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine were originally a Western creation.
The interference of the Middle East by the Western powers has not brought the middle East a better place, and Israel has not really brought the Middle East a better place as it has created hatred and division.
Israel is here to stay and the Arab states have given up the idea of conqurering Israel, however Isreal is still acting as an colonial power of expanding Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. It is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace but extremists on both sides do not want it and want more blood and further demonising the enemy. Anyway Israel is also practising collective punishment on the Palestinians and the result has it has brought in a rise in popularity in Palestinian extremists like Hamas.
See, here's the problem: Israel is a sovereign nation. For this reason, we don't really have the right to judge her. Suppose someone in another nation judged the United States for our 19th century policy of Manifest Destiny. That was nothing more than an excuse to take over land we as a nation decided that we wanted. A land grab, in other words. And it wasn't uninhabited land, either. How many Native American tribes did we displace, if not exterminate? (But it was OK, because it was our "manifest destiny." Right?)
The problem with a lot of people posting here is that they're using Israel as a veil to disguise what they really mean to say: Jews.
If we were not coerced into giving Israel 3 BIL every year I would agree with you Fred. But since we do, we get to have a vote.
Most people that throw out the" you are being anti-semetic card" are more often than not Fundamentalist Christians that would not know a Jew if they tripped over one in the supermarket. But they pretend to be all warm and fuzzy about them. It all comes back to the Bible Fred. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
Most Jews in America are not as passionate about supporting Israel as the Fundies are. As has been pointed out before, close to half of Israelis themselves see the U.S. support as being embarassingly biased in their favor.
I think if we stopped with the Gravy Train, most Americans would be happy to see Israel if can stand up on their own.
Most Jews in America are not as passionate about supporting Israel as the Fundies are. As has been pointed out before, close to half of Israelis themselves see the U.S. support as being embarassingly biased in their favor.
I think if we stopped with the Gravy Train, most Americans would be happy to see Israel if can stand up on their own.
Actually most Jews in the US are quite passionate about supporting Israel, and more are starting to see the annual aid as money that lets America treat Israel like the 51st state. Judging from the state of their respective economies I think the US has greater need for this money.
Actually most Jews in the US are quite passionate about supporting Israel, and more are starting to see the annual aid as money that lets America treat Israel like the 51st state. Judging from the state of their respective economies I think the US has greater need for this money.
Articles like this state that unquestioned support is changing. Of course the large majority of American Jews vote Democratic.
The social science is pretty overwhelming that young American Jews - young non-orthodox American Jews, which are still the large majority - feel significantly less attached to Israel than their parents and grandparents. And one of the reasons for that is of course simply assimilation that they may be in some ways less Jewish, but even if you factor that out - and there are studies that have done that. Even if you look at younger American Jews who are clearly not losing connection to their Jewishness, they're much less likely to say for instance they feel proud of Israel than were past generations.
Americans should get the chance to decide if they want Israel as a
51st state or not. A state where the residents don't have to pay taxes , but are given instead a nice fat check like clockwork every year by Uncle Sam.
Americans should get the chance to decide if they want Israel as a 51st state or not. A state where the residents don't have to pay taxes , but are given instead a nice fat check like clockwork every year by Uncle Sam.
This makes me wonder what you must think of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
American Jews are allowed to serve in the Israeli military, more American Jews probably serve in the IDF then they do the US military. I can't think of another ethnic/religious group in the US allowed to serve in the military of their former country while being an American citizen. That shows you how biased American policy is towards Israel, if an American citizens served in the military of Hamas they would be thrown in Super Max prison for twenty years.
if an American citizens served in the military of Hamas they would be thrown in Super Max prison for twenty years.
As well they should be! Hamas is a designated terrorist organization.
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