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I believe there should be both a contiguous Palestinian state and an Israeli one. This idea of having a split Palestinian state was ill advised and unworkable as they now have different governments in each locale, not to mention problems of traversing between the two spots.
The idea of trading land for peace hasn't worked out too well either as it's now expected that all land lost when Israel's neighbors attacked it is now expected to be returned.
I like NewtoCa's ideas in general too and was also wondering when someone would bring up the 'right of return issue'. The problem with that idea is that the birth rate is so high in Arab populations that the Israelis would soon be outnumbered by those who would insist that Shari law be imposed and democracy be eliminated thereby negating the existance of Isarel as a Jewish state. We are seeing the beginnings of this scenario played out in Europe, the threat of being overtaken by Muslim immigrants and insistance on implementation of their laws. The Israelis have taken the opposite stance of not risking it in the first place as it would be impossible to undo.
I still think more progress could be made but not until the right of return is eliminated and Hamas is ousted from power as they don't care how badly they inflict suffering on their own people. Better they spend their money on making an economy than on missles lobbed into Israel and then hoping for intl support after they get their citizens shot up.
The biggest problem as I see it is Jerusalem. Jews want it as their historical capital and if Arabs get any part of it they won't allow Jews to be there. There is also this little problem of some wanting to rebuilt the ancient Jewish temple and the fact that the Muslims have already built their golden Dome of the Rock in nearly the same place. Not sure if holding it as an international city would work but suppose it's worth a try.
I would say yes, let them exist on their own. No more mooching allowed though. Stop bribing Egypt as well. Let's keep our money at home where it is needed.
I think a lot of people who lack a basic background in Bible prophesy will be tempted to think they can separate the nation of Israel from the Book of Daniel or Revelation or other prophetic books of the Bible, but that simply isn't the case, and the question of whether or not Israel has the right to exist is ill posed because of it.
Smart people might find the existence of God a silly superstition with no more merit than that of countless other ancient belief systems, but the problem with that conclusion is history. It's easy to explain away what some claim to be fulfillment of prophecy as a rewrite of the original text after the fact, malicious translation or simple coincidence, but the problem with that line of reasoning is the King James Bible. See, the KJV translation completed in 1611 AD is exactly the same today as then. There is no chance for a rewrite after the fact, malicious translation or what a reasonable person would see as a coincidence. Furthermore, for the translators to deliberately shape the text to coincide with future events would require them to be able to predict an event 337 years into their future.
The rebirth of Israel following WWII on May 14, 1948 coincides with the end of a defined period of punishment for Israel lasting two and one half milenia and terminating with the reestablishment of the Jewish state.
If you want to debate whether or not the Jews should have a home nation, go ahead, but understand you are wasting your time since the same Bible that set a date in our time when Israel would be reestablished also indicates it will be in existence at the time of the end.
Thanks, Mo. You laid out succinctly what everyone on this thread should acknowledge before delving into a discussion on Israel. You hit the nail on the head for sure. I find it mildly amusing that those who deny the existence of prophesy are the same people who believe they have Israeli issues all figured out. It's humorous to watch.
When will Israel stop building settlements?
When will the block on Gaza stop?
After Hamas lay down their weapons?
Settlements don't kill people. Missles do.
Do you not remember the lengths The Jews went to to show they wanted peace??
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Q&A: Sharon's Gaza plan
Ariel Sharon: Motives have been questioned
Israel's cabinet has given final approval to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to disengage from the majority-Palestinian Gaza Strip and parts of the West Bank.
The proposal has proved extremely controversial, both with the Palestinians - who object to the action being unilateral - and with Mr Sharon's centre-right Likud party, Jewish settlers and their allies.
The plan had already been passed by the Israeli parliament, but the endorsement from cabinet means the government will send letters to settlers in Gaza and four West Bank settlements, telling them evacuation will go ahead this summer. How is the disengagement plan supposed to work?
Under the plan, Gaza's 8,000 Jewish settlers and the soldiers that protect them will be withdrawn. Four small West Bank settlements will also be given up. Withdrawal is scheduled to start on 20 July and take about eight weeks.
They pulled out of Gaza over 8000 of their own people who had been living there for over 30 years!!!!! Imagine being ripped from your home after living there that long! Well Israel did it! They thought it would stop the attacks!! IT DID NOT! Why? Because it's not about the land! It's about extermination of the Jews. It doesn't matter how much land they get!
It depends on how you define illegal. According to the UN it's a legal state but the real question should be whether or not the UN had the legal right to form the state to begin with.
It depends on how you define illegal. According to the UN it's a legal state but the real question should be whether or not the UN had the legal right to form the state to begin with.
Who decides what is a legal state in your opinion? Did Britain and France have the "legal right" to divide the middle east into 25 +/- arab countries after WW 1? The fact is those countries now exist. The fact is Israel now exists, despite what the now 50+ Muslim countries and 25 or so arab countries now wish for. Even if the UN will be 99% anti-Israel (we are not far from that now) this will not change.
Why do people discuss Israel's right to exist anyway? It does exist and that's that!
Do you ask about Norway's right to exist? NO
Do you ask about Japan's right to exist? NO
Do you ask about USA's right to exist? NO
Even the existence of small countries like Swaziland and Luxembourg are not questioned. So why Israel?
Who decides what is a legal state in your opinion? Did Britain and France have the "legal right" to divide the middle east into 25 +/- arab countries after WW 1? The fact is those countries now exist. The fact is Israel now exists, despite what the now 50+ Muslim countries and 25 or so arab countries now wish for. Even if the UN will be 99% anti-Israel (we are not far from that now) this will not change.
Why do people discuss Israel's right to exist anyway? It does exist and that's that!
Do you ask about Norway's right to exist? NO
Do you ask about Japan's right to exist? NO
Do you ask about USA's right to exist? NO
Even the existence of small countries like Swaziland and Luxembourg are not questioned. So why Israel?
Great points.
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