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I do not know what universe memphis1979 is living in but it is certainly not this universe. Jobs are not available so most employees are stuck in the one they are luck enough to keep. They are so trapped that the administration could suddenly call convenience store clerks "managers" and take away needed overtime. I don't know about you "model employees" but I do not work if I am not paid! M-1979 apparently loves a world with surplus labor available to be exploited at some employer's whim and profit.
We need one big Union to provide employees, and prospective employees, with the power to challenge their exploiters.
BTW - I once ran my own business and hired union craftsmen so I didn't have to teach them their job. They were already skilled and worked very efficiently. They saved more than enough time to pay for their higher wages.
One big union? That's as bad an idea as one big business running an entire industry.
I do not know what universe memphis1979 is living in but it is certainly not this universe. Jobs are not available so most employees are stuck in the one they are luck enough to keep. They are so trapped that the administration could suddenly call convenience store clerks "managers" and take away needed overtime. I don't know about you "model employees" but I do not work if I am not paid! M-1979 apparently loves a world with surplus labor available to be exploited at some employer's whim and profit.
We need one big Union to provide employees, and prospective employees, with the power to challenge their exploiters.
BTW - I once ran my own business and hired union craftsmen so I didn't have to teach them their job. They were already skilled and worked very efficiently. They saved more than enough time to pay for their higher wages.
Union contractors are completely different.
I'm talking about factory workers, and service industry jobs, etc.
There is absolutely no reason for someone to be getting paid 70 dollars an hour for assembly line work, none. Job banks, what a joke.
Unions aren't working with the companies anymore, they work to screw the company, and if they can't screw the company, they screw their members.
And there are jobs out there, if you're willing to relocate. If we dictate hiring and firing practices based on the economy, we'd have to completely change the government every 8 to 10 years.
I'm talking about factory workers, and service industry jobs, etc.
There is absolutely no reason for someone to be getting paid 70 dollars an hour for assembly line work, none. Job banks, what a joke.
Unions aren't working with the companies anymore, they work to screw the company, and if they can't screw the company, they screw their members.
And there are jobs out there, if you're willing to relocate. If we dictate hiring and firing practices based on the economy, we'd have to completely change the government every 8 to 10 years.
That 70 dollars an hour has been debunked a long time ago. They don't make any where near that much. That ridiculous number was obtained by adding up GM's total labor, health, and pension costs, and then dividing it by the total number of hours worked in the plant that particular quarter they did the fuzzy math. In other words, it includes all the healthcare and retirement costs of both the current workers and the retired workers averaged out.
Relocating sounds so simple when you don't live in an area where 100s of people lose their jobs all at one time. Housing values fall because of all the foreclosures and no one is buying houses. Even the people with paid off mortgages can't just close the doors and walk away i.e. it takes money to relocate.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 07-16-2010 at 12:01 PM..
How long are we going to put up with unions breaking the backs of our communities? As a former LEO I think it is disgusting that Police and Firefighters can't take a salary and pension cut to bridge the gap that they helped to create.
10% across the board for both salary and pension payouts. Problem solved.
Unions came into play because municipalities were unable to deal fairly w/ their employees.
If you look into the roots of almost any current labor dispute involving public employees, they are uniformly the result of Faustian-style bargains made by previous administrations.
Police and firemen were given better pensions in lieu of salary raises. While this "solved" the problems in the 70's and 80's,the bill has come due and there's not enough money to pay it.
I'm by no means an advocate for unions. I personally suypervised union employees and have found it to be so unpleasant that I likely will never do it again. Having said that, these municipalities signed these deals. Unless they plan on merging w/ other municipalities or going to the Federal government for a loan, they have to honor them.
That 70 dollars an hour has been debunked a long time ago. They don't make any where near that much. That ridiculous number was obtained by adding up GM's total labor, health, and pension costs, and then dividing it by the total number of hours worked in the plant that particular quarter they did the fuzzy math. In other words, it includes all the healthcare and retirement costs of both the current workers and the retired workers averaged out.
Relocating sounds so simple when you don't live in an area where 100s of people lose their jobs all at one time. Housing values fall because of all the foreclosures and no one is buying houses. Even the people with paid off mortgages can't just close the doors and walk away i.e. it takes money to relocate.
Really, I heard it on the Detroit evening news in 2005. They interviewed the guy, who said that, benefits and all, he makes over 70 dollars an hour.
Really, I heard it on the Detroit evening news in 2005. They interviewed the guy, who said that, benefits and all, he makes over 70 dollars an hour.
Do you have proof its debunked?
FactCheck.org: Do auto workers really make more than $70 per hour? (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html - broken link)
Really, I heard it on the Detroit evening news in 2005. They interviewed the guy, who said that, benefits and all, he makes over 70 dollars an hour.
Do you have proof its debunked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
FactCheck.org: Do auto workers really make more than $70 per hour? (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html - broken link)
Thats a hell of a lot of money for someone who sits on their butt, and puts a little chip on a board, with no college education, that anyone with half a brain could do.
However, with all of the Union rules, the company can't fire someone who's "doing their job" and are milked into paying for this. Then they don't have money to expand or invent like they once did, killing off the industry, and not being allowed to hire someone who would do the job for 15 dollars an hour.
Thats a hell of a lot of money for someone who sits on their butt, and puts a little chip on a board, with no college education, that anyone with half a brain could do.
However, with all of the Union rules, the company can't fire someone who's "doing their job" and are milked into paying for this. Then they don't have money to expand or invent like they once did, killing off the industry, and not being allowed to hire someone who would do the job for 15 dollars an hour.
You didn't read any of those links I provided, did you, so you continue to spread misinformation here and/or outright lies.
Aside from that you seem to be totally unaware that with the 2007 contract that GM and the UAW signed new hire-ins at GM only get $14.00 an hour and with NO pensions rights. The UAW has been making concessions to the auto industry for a decade, trying to help the companies stay solvent.
Unions came into play because municipalities were unable to deal fairly w/ their employees.
If you look into the roots of almost any current labor dispute involving public employees, they are uniformly the result of Faustian-style bargains made by previous administrations.
Police and firemen were given better pensions in lieu of salary raises. While this "solved" the problems in the 70's and 80's,the bill has come due and there's not enough money to pay it.
I'm by no means an advocate for unions. I personally suypervised union employees and have found it to be so unpleasant that I likely will never do it again. Having said that, these municipalities signed these deals. Unless they plan on merging w/ other municipalities or going to the Federal government for a loan, they have to honor them.
Who cares about the 70's and 80's. These are current contracts. Yes there are provisions in the contracts and city charters that allow for dissolution and re-negotiations. Obviously instead of being upstanding citizens there are going to reduce this to a court battle that will place more monetary burden on the city. Yes I am questioning the veracity of their character.
You didn't read any of those links I provided, did you, so you continue to spread misinformation here and/or outright lies.
Aside from that you seem to be totally unaware that with the 2007 contract that GM and the UAW signed new hire-ins at GM only get $14.00 an hour and with NO pensions rights. The UAW has been making concessions to the auto industry for a decade, trying to help the companies stay solvent.
From the Factcheck link
The result is the per-hour labor cost to the automakers, which is very different from "pay" or "wages" or even "wages and benefits" earned by their workers. As David Leonhardt pointed out in the New York Times (countering, in a sense, the earlier piece by Sorkin), the average GM, Ford and Chrysler worker receives compensation – wages, bonuses, overtime and paid time off – of about $40 an hour. Add in benefits such as health insurance and pensions and you get to about $55. Another $15 or so in benefits to retirees (known as "legacy costs") brings the number to roughly $70.
And the 15 dollar legacy cost, is like their version of social security. You pay it, so when you retire, you get it. Its still a benefit.
And again, from the same link
The problem is, that's just not true. The automakers say that the average wage earned by its unionized workers is about $29 per hour. So how does that climb to more than $70? Add in benefits: life insurance, health care, pension and so on. But not just the benefits that the current workers actually receive – after all, it's pretty rare for the value of a benefits package to add up to more than wages paid, even with a really, really good health plan in place. What's causing the number to balloon is the cost of providing benefits to tens of thousands of retired auto workers and their surviving spouses
So, 55 dollars an hour, before the retirement benefit, Thats still almost twice what a non union hourly job in the same place, doing the same thing would make.
MILKING the system.
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