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Maybe it'll smarten up one day.... let the more valuable of us hang onto our own money!
Medicare and Medicaid currently take up about 5% of our GDP. If allowed to remain as is, they would have eventually taken up about 15%-20% of our GDP. In other words, we would have gone (and possibly still could go) bankrupt. If we go bankrupt then nobody gets anything anyway. One of the ways to avert this is to potentially ration care (i.e., let people die).
All one has to do is study the European system, and they can 'read the book' on this scheme. It will not work.
What is so difficult to understand about the fact that if you have more people taking from the system than are contributing to it, it will eventually fail? It is like spinning the wheel of a bicycle with all your might, it will spin, and spin fast, but it will slow down each revolution, eventually it will stop. This model that the Democrats forced on America will not succeed in the end, but will cost our children, and our grandchildren dearly.
The socialist European countries have different setups I gathered. I thought they had full-blown governmental control over the health-care system, not government subsidizing of health insurance.
And, I can agree that rationing might be the only thing that can avert fiscal insolvency.
The socialist European countries have different setups I gathered. I thought they had full-blown governmental control over the health-care system, not government subsidizing of health insurance.
And, I can agree that rationing might be the only thing that can avert fiscal insolvency.
And government forced rationing of medical care options works in how exactly with a self-procalimed Libertarian?
Apparently though you claim to be a small government libertarian you really believe in the abdication of personal responsibility allowing government control in exchange for freedom and the responsibility.
Not only are you illustrating through your arguement that people are more willing to spend other people's money for rountine medical check-ups than their own money; but also that you are OK with that.
Crazy, no. A small government liberatarian, NO. Step away from the Kool-aid.
Are you daft? Do you have a learning disability? I would prefer NO socialism in our health-care, BUT WE ALREADY HAVE IT WITH MEDICARE AND MEDICAID. DUH. If you are poor or old your medical bills get paid for by the government and eventually these two programs will take up 15%-20% of our entire nation's output. This is not sustainable. Something needs to be (or needed to be done). I am merely floating the possibility that Obama's plan may save us money.
Medicaid patients, despite having "coverage" rarely come in for "routine appointments" and are just as careless as those without any coverage. It is a cultural issue and the simple presence of coverage does not markedly change behavior. We do not see as many $3,000 ambulance rides for colds as there used to be among Medicaid patients, but still thier compliance rate with ANYTHING is terrible.
I always got the impression that the vast majority of costs coming from Medicaid were from poor people breeding (and the associated birthing and child health-care costs). I also got the impression that a lot of Medicare's costs come from trying to keep old people alive another 6-12 months when they should have been allowed to die.
And government forced rationing of medical care options works in how exactly with a self-procalimed Libertarian?
I am a fiscal conservative before I am a libertarian. We need to avert the funding crisis that we face in the coming decades. I also flirted with the idea of a public and socialist health care system much like our educational system. There would be public hospitals that anybody could go to, but you can go to a private hospital or private insurance if you wish (much like our K-12 educational system and private schools). Of course, the public hospitals would be of lower quality. But, the government could ration care to people in an attempt to keep costs down (instead of paying for people's private hospital bills like they do now with Medicaid and Medicare).
This Bill is not just a healthcare bill. It's an assault on small business and on individual rights.It's an assault on State's rights. It's unconstitutional for the Federal government demand that we purchase something. And we will be PENALIZED if we do not want health insurance. There are many groups who don't believe in it, many people who have their own health support system. People who only want extreme hospitalization coverage. But obamacare doesn't care: Imprisoned for Not Having Health Care? | FactCheck.org
Here's the deal - so many universities and liberal philosophers preach against "Business" and "Corporations" as if they are bad guys. Business and Corporations are WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM and WHERE THE JOBS COME FROM. And where tax dollars come from. Most people don't realize that Small businesses (and I'm talking businesses with less than 500 employees here) employ about 1/2 of the US workforce. There were 25,854,983 small businesses in the US in the 2004 Census. Those businesses employed 58,597,452 people. They ARE the engine that runs this country: provides employment, pays taxes, creates innovative technologies, and participate in keeping communities alive. Statistics about Business Size from the Census Bureau
"The president repeated his promise that his plan won’t add “one dime” to the federal deficit. But legislation offered so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office."
"...The CBO estimated that 3 million who now have employer-provided coverage would lose it under the House bill, as their employers find that paying the penalty is cheaper than providing coverage."
NEW Tax Laws hidden in the Healthcare bill will add thousands of hours to small businesses paperwork. This will show up in increases of goods and services: New 1099 Rules for Businesses > Las Vegas Small Business Attorney, Lawyer (http://www.madsenlawoffice.com/Blog/ID/37/New-1099-Rules-for-Businesses.aspx - broken link)
"... According to a small section on page 737 of the new healthcare bill, companies will have to start issuing 1099 forms to any vendor who receives more than $600 a year starting in 2012. This includes goods AND services. Stop and think about how many of your vendors would be included. "Hi, Apple, this is Gina. Can I get a W-9 form from you? And OfficeMax, and Costco, and Verizon, and Best Buy..."
Obama Healthcare law kicked banks, student loan companies, and other financial institutions out of the student loan business. With health care reform comes student loan reform » Abilene Reporter News
"This fall, college students will no longer have the option to pick a private bank or hometown institution to facilitate their federal student loans. Instead, they will only be able to borrow directly from the federal government. " Again - anti-business. And, according to a friend of mine who is in the student loan business, this came as a complete shock. Wiped out their company and their stockholders. AND the Feds have a dismal record of administering student loans and getting the money to the students on time.
There cannot be a rational discussion of Obamacare legislation because its ramifications are unknown and approval was admitedy make without conversational knowledge of all its legal and economic implications.
Speaking to a single variable in no way validates the entire legislation whatever positive results may be realized by a specific category of people.
The growing tentacles of an administrative labrynth have been unleashed to stun small business and restrict choices that were promise would continue.
The massive legislation must be nullified as there is no time to legislate changes and no way to understand the implication of those changes on elements scattered in the 2,200 page document. This document would require a lifetime of study before any meaningful modifications could be made.
Please, if any legislator makes a claim based on the Obamacare legislation, ask that the page, paragraph and sentence that supports that claim be cited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Great post - exactly! Couldn't rep you, but I'll give you
You give people logic and it freaks them out. This post, by all rights, should give reason for backing off of a topic that is 2,200 pages long. Nothing is that difficult. People seem to think that it has to be though.
Absolutely great post. I could rep you, and give you .
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Obama Care steps waaaaay over the line
