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Old 01-01-2011, 09:20 AM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,925 times
Reputation: 495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
I was a single dad. Didn't have much in the way of savings, enough to hold out for a few months, and had a single credit card, for emergency use only. If you are smart, you don't use something knowing you can't pay for it when the bill comes due, whether or not the interest on it is low OR high.

Sold the house? That's would really been silly, because RENT would have cost more than the mortgage payment. Not only that, until the house sold/closed and I had money, how was I supposed to come up with rent/security deposit and move all our belongings. (I probably failed to mention, I can't carry anything as my ankles and knees are messed up, allowing me to only walk for short distances, and cannot carry anything over 10-20 lbs).

So, your suggestion I could sell the house, and place myself in a worse position than i was in, not being able to afford to sign up and rent a place, because there is no way I could have first/last month and security deposit handy, and have to hire someone, (something else I couldn't afford) to move our belongings, is inane.

As for asking my brother, yes, I could have. Just like any other person, can ask the government, ask their local church/synagogue, or other charity for assistance. This is America, where in most cases, we are the most charitable people in the world. There are MANY differing charitable organizations waiting to help.

On the other hand, I have to set an example for my children. What a sad example it is for them to see that when things are tough, that you should expect someone else to provide for you. When i was military, I learned to lead by example. You never ask your subordinates to to something you wouldn't do yourself. You Expect them to be what you show them to be. My kids learned the same way. I didn't ask them to do dishes/vacuum floors etc, without my having done so also. In that way, I set the example. When things got tough, I set the example. I showed them we didn't need government assistance, we didn't need charity, that it's ok to ask family for help, but above all, you do what you have to do.

You don't spend money needlessly, and you are capable of doing what needs to be done, if you put your mind to it.
You could have sold your house. Rented in a cheaper location, from the money you earned from your house (the house appreciated in those 11 years). Poor people don't have that option if worse came to worse. If your situation had not improved, you had that possibility.

You had savings. Not something that the poor have. Credit cards with an interest rate that is lower than 50% (the poor of the poor use places like check into cash...the rates are ridiculous).

You had family that can afford to help you. Not everyone does.

Look, I'm sorry for what happened to you. However, to claim that this is a shining example of what it means to be poor in America is simply misleading.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:21 AM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
That's because people in the top tiers are smarter, work harder, sacrifice more and take risk.
No, it's mostly because they were born in situations that enabled them to stay well off. If that were the case, then why don't the poor simply just work harder? It's obviously not the case.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:22 AM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,925 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by htlong View Post
life is about choices one makes if you chose to have unprotected sex you get children,as for the education gap that is a choice too.
I had no rich parents to pay for my education,so I chose to work and pay my way myself, was it hard?.....yes...did it take a long time?....yes.....did I wait to have children till I could afford them?..... yes, did I live within my means ?....yes

CHOICES!!

people chose to be in the lower gap and cry for the govt to take care of them
my advice is teach your children to make the right choices!
Please actually read up on the issues before commenting.

You most likely were middle class.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,391 posts, read 5,170,222 times
Reputation: 2283
Default Economics 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
To be honest I'm embarrassed that this debate is even on here. It's shows a level of ignorance that is astounding.

Min. wages allow jobs for the poor to be paid at a min. level. That's all. I propose that the level be increased as to be, I don't know, above poverty.

Min wage doesn't drive businesses away. Unadulterated greed does. The tip top percentage of wage earners have seen their wages go up faster than anyone while the poor have seen their wages decrease. Min. wage increased slowed this decrease. So in effect, the poor have gotten poorer. The richer have gotten greedier. The rich would still move their businesses offshore without min wage increases. Thus the poor would just be even poorer.

So to sum it up, the min. wage doesn't drive businesses offshore, it's greed. They would leave regardless of a min wage or not to pay even less.
You pay more. You have to charge more, or reduce overhead. You lay off the least producing, so you increase unemployment. Since other people now have to not only pay more for your good and services, but now have more money they need to pay out, the do the same thing, they reduce employees, and then increase what they charge people for their goods and services. Since everything is going to go up in price synonymous and incrementally with wage increases, the people now have to pay more for the things they purchase, and now not only do they not only have the purchasing power that you were trying to "GIVE" then, but everyone else, who's pay was not incrementally increased in conjunction with the minimum wage increase, you have now decreased their purchasing power.

It's simple economics 101.. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:26 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 7,378,263 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
Please actually read up on the issues before commenting.

You most likely were middle class.
ahhh but aren't we assuming ? no I wasn't I used my father as an example.....a bad example of what not to do.

if you want to succeed just do it dont whine and wait for the govt to hand it to you.......
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:31 AM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,925 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
You pay more. You have to charge more, or reduce overhead. You lay off the least producing, so you increase unemployment. Since other people now have to not only pay more for your good and services, but now have more money they need to pay out, the do the same thing, they reduce employees, and then increase what they charge people for their goods and services. Since everything is going to go up in price synonymous and incrementally with wage increases, the people now have to pay more for the things they purchase, and now not only do they not only have the purchasing power that you were trying to "GIVE" then, but everyone else, who's pay was not incrementally increased in conjunction with the minimum wage increase, you have now decreased their purchasing power.

It's simple economics 101.. Why is this so hard to understand?
If that were the case, then we would see massive bouts of unemployment during each subsequent increase. We haven't. Not only that we would expect prices of basic goods to increase MUCH quicker than they have. Also we would expect CEO pay to not rise as fast since corporate earnings would fall after each increase. We've not seen that. These things have not come to pass.

What we have seen is that the poorest of the poor are less poor because of min. wage increases (there is no surprise when you raise the income of the poor or simply give a little stimulus to them, consumer spending rises). Their purchasing power has DECREASED for a long time now. This decrease is creating a widening wealth gap. While some like to visit Brazil, I don't want America to emulate their socio-economic model.

So again this is simple economics 101...why is THIS so hard to understand?
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:33 AM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,925 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by htlong View Post
ahhh but aren't we assuming ? no I wasn't I used my father as an example.....a bad example of what not to do.

if you want to succeed just do it dont whine and wait for the govt to hand it to you.......
Not assuming. Just read your comments and they're poorly written. They are overly simplistic and thus not reflective of reality. If I turned in a papers of that caliber, I would have flunked out of college.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:38 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 7,378,263 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
Not assuming. Just read your comments and they're poorly written. They are overly simplistic and thus not reflective of reality. If I turned in a papers of that caliber, I would have flunked out of college.
why waste my time typing ,when your great society mentality wont ever change ,so I cut to the chase

you sound as if your college profs. worked on your gray matter pretty good,I chose to do my own thinking
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:49 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,245,170 times
Reputation: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
To be honest I'm embarrassed that this debate is even on here. It's shows a level of ignorance that is astounding.
The debate shouldn't be there because the minimum wage is a detriment to individual liberty and should not take place in a free society.

Quote:
Min. wages allow jobs for the poor to be paid at a min. level. That's all. I propose that the level be increased as to be, I don't know, above poverty.
No it keeps the unemployed unemployed if the employer doesn't think they will bring up more than the minimum wage. Obviously YOU have never ran a business.

Quote:
Min wage doesn't drive businesses away. Unadulterated greed does. The tip top percentage of wage earners have seen their wages go up faster than anyone while the poor have seen their wages decrease. Min. wage increased slowed this decrease. So in effect, the poor have gotten poorer. The richer have gotten greedier. The rich would still move their businesses offshore without min wage increases. Thus the poor would just be even poorer.

So to sum it up, the min. wage doesn't drive businesses offshore, it's greed. They would leave regardless of a min wage or not to pay even less.
Using cheap words like greed won't affect me. The profit motive is what makes people engage in mutually beneficial trade. Your and a lot of other people's misunderstanding of economics is unfortunately the reason of the downfall of the US
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTrashed View Post
The debate shouldn't be there because the minimum wage is a detriment to individual liberty and should not take place in a free society.


No it keeps the unemployed unemployed if the employer doesn't think they will bring up more than the minimum wage. Obviously YOU have never ran a business.


Using cheap words like greed won't affect me. The profit motive is what makes people engage in mutually beneficial trade. Your and a lot of other people's misunderstanding of economics is unfortunately the reason of the downfall of the US
They are not interested in economics or how business works; they are interested in their paycheck and how much they get to take home.
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