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I was wondering do any of you who voted against gay marriage understand that gay marriage means a non-religious non-Christian civil marriage (the same exact concept as a civil union)? A civil marriage does not mean religious ceremonial marriage or a Christian marriage. I'm curious as to how many people had it backward and voted against same-sex marriage because they thought it meant a Christian ceremonial marriage?
They can already get civil unions.
I have no extreme opinion either way as I'm a Californian and didn't bother to vote on Prop. 8 because it didn't concern me, but imo it's a slippery slope. If we pass laws allowing gays to get married (When they can already get a civil union) then what's to stop Muslims or people of that Mormon sect from demanding to be able to practice polygamy? Thats the door we're opening up. A question I have for gays and lesbians is whats so bad about getting a civil union? It's just like a marriage the only difference is the name.
They don't have civil unions in Texas or Alabama. Duh. Civil union is a civil marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domination83
They can already get civil unions.
I have no extreme opinion either way as I'm a Californian and didn't bother to vote on Prop. 8 because it didn't concern me, but imo it's a slippery slope. If we pass laws allowing gays to get married (When they can already get a civil union) then what's to stop Muslims or people of that Mormon sect from demanding to be able to practice polygamy? Thats the door we're opening up. A question I have for gays and lesbians is whats so bad about getting a civil union? It's just like a marriage the only difference is the name.
I have no extreme opinion either way as I'm a Californian and didn't bother to vote on Prop. 8 because it didn't concern me, but imo it's a slippery slope. If we pass laws allowing gays to get married (When they can already get a civil union) then what's to stop Muslims or people of that Mormon sect from demanding to be able to practice polygamy? Thats the door we're opening up. A question I have for gays and lesbians is whats so bad about getting a civil union? It's just like a marriage the only difference is the name.
I'm not gay, but even I can answer that question for you.
1. Civil unions, like same sex marriage are not available in all states.
2. Civil unions, where they are available, are NOT "just like marriage" in that they do not convey all of the rights and privileges that marriages conveys.
3. In several states the laws or constitutional amendments that ban same sex marriage also ban domestic partnerships and civil unions for same sex couples.
And, BTW, you are aware are you not that 'slippery slope' is considered a logical fallacy? Logical Fallacies
Here are the differences between marriage and civil unions in a nutshell. They do differ a bit from state to state.
Number of legal benefits:
- Marriage: Over 1,049 federal and state benefits.
- Civil Unions: Over 300 state benefits. No federal protection.
Taxes:
- Marriage: Couples can file both federal and state tax returns jointly.
- Civil Unions: Couples can only file jointly in the state of civil registration.
Medical Decisions:
- Marriage: Partners can make emergency medical decisions anywhere.
- Civil Unions: Partners can only make medical decisions in the registered state.
Gifts:
- Marriage: Partners can transfer gifts to each other without tax penalties.
- Civil Unions: Partners do not pay state taxes, but are required to report federal taxes.
Death Benefits:
- Marriage: The surviving partner receives any earned Social Security, Pensions, or Veteran's benefits.
- Civil Unions: Partners do not receive Social Security, pensions, or any other government benefits in case of death.
Child/Spousal Support:
- Marriage: In case of divorce, individuals may have a legally-binding financial obligation to spouses and children.
- Civil Unions: In the case of dissolution, no spousal or child benefits are guaranteed or required out of state.
Immigration Rights:
- Marriage: U.S. citizens and legal residents can sponsor their spouses and family members for immigration.
- Civil Unions: U.S. citizens and legal residents cannot sponsor non-legal spouses or family members.
I have no extreme opinion either way as I'm a Californian and didn't bother to vote on Prop. 8 because it didn't concern me, but imo it's a slippery slope. If we pass laws allowing gays to get married (When they can already get a civil union) then what's to stop Muslims or people of that Mormon sect from demanding to be able to practice polygamy? Thats the door we're opening up. A question I have for gays and lesbians is whats so bad about getting a civil union? It's just like a marriage the only difference is the name.
Well, first because civil unions don't (they can't because of federal law) provide all the legal rights of a civil marriage contract. Civil Union ≠ Civil Marriage.
Also, the idea the "separate but equal" is pretty much a no go in the USA. In the law, civil marriage is simply a contract between two people, given power by the state, conferring some 1400 legal rights - 1100 or so federal, the rest state (keep in mind when we ask for "gay marriage", we're only talking about civil marriage - it has nothing to do with religious or cultural marriage). We don't have separate terms for identical things in the US depending on they classification of person accessing the law. Why stop at a different term for gays? Why not "civil marriage" for heterosexuals, "civil unions" for homosexuals, "shacking up" for atheists, "cohabitation" for blacks, "domestic partnerships" for Christians, etc, etc, etc.
If we want to rename civil marriages civil unions and just have civil unions for everybody, I'm more than okay with that. I'm even okay with getting rid of civil marriage altogether. I just want to be treated equally.
I'm not gay, but even I can answer that question for you.
1. Civil unions, like same sex marriage are not available in all states.
2. Civil unions, where they are available, are NOT "just like marriage" in that they do not convey all of the rights and privileges that marriages conveys.
3. In several states the laws or constitutional amendments that ban same sex marriage also ban domestic partnerships and civil unions for same sex couples.
And, BTW, you are aware are you not that 'slippery slope' is considered a logical fallacy? Logical Fallacies
It's called a slippery slope fallacy when one falsely asserts that one thing will lead to another, not if they state that something is a slippery slope.
The poster brings up a good point that is truly a slippery slope, meaning that legalizing gay marriage could lead to people wanting to legalize polygamy. I don't buy the argument that some people give, about legalizing marrying animals and whatnot, that's just rude to say b/c it seems to compare gay people with animals. But if we start redefining marriage, who's to say that the polygamists won't jump in and try to say we should redefine marriage again as between one man and many women (or however they work it)? That is not a stretch.
I have no extreme opinion either way as I'm a Californian and didn't bother to vote on Prop. 8 because it didn't concern me, but imo it's a slippery slope. If we pass laws allowing gays to get married (When they can already get a civil union) then what's to stop Muslims or people of that Mormon sect from demanding to be able to practice polygamy? Thats the door we're opening up. A question I have for gays and lesbians is whats so bad about getting a civil union? It's just like a marriage the only difference is the name.
Sigh...really? Soooo, you didn't bother to vote on anything, yet we're supposed to take to heart & listen to what you have to say?
Hmmm....I don't think so.
And by the way, in case you weren't listening? Polygamy is really not a big deal...but why don't you come out & start blabbering about marrying a goat or a desk....it gives you lots of credentials w/that other party....snicker.
It's called a slippery slope fallacy when one falsely asserts that one thing will lead to another, not if they state that something is a slippery slope.
The poster brings up a good point that is truly a slippery slope, meaning that legalizing gay marriage could lead to people wanting to legalize polygamy. I don't buy the argument that some people give, about legalizing marrying animals and whatnot, that's just rude to say b/c it seems to compare gay people with animals. But if we start redefining marriage, who's to say that the polygamists won't jump in and try to say we should redefine marriage again as between one man and many women (or however they work it)? That is not a stretch.
Sorry, but you are making the same mistake the previous poster did. Allowing same sex marriage does NOT "automatically" lead to polygamy or bigamy or any other of the things people bring up. And as it has been stated before (many times in just this forum, thousands of times in the 12 years I've been involved in these discussions) words are redefined, invented and dropped from the language (and thus the dictionaries) all the time. Been that way since the dictionary was invented and will continue to be that way until long after both of us, our children and grandchildren are gone from this earth. Why do you think they put out new dictionaries every year?
Last edited by MsMcQ LV; 11-19-2010 at 12:04 AM..
Reason: missed a couple of words
If marriage is so holy, then you good anti-government types should want the state to have no hand in it.
"Keep your government hands off my marriage!", right? So let the government only recognise civil unions and let marriage be some private religious thing, akin to baptism or confirmation.
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