Birther Lakin Wakes Up and Smells the Coffee. (Presidents, Americans, America)
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No, you've given your 'opinion,' and cited quotes you don't understand.
And yet you still have to make up arguments and try and put them in my mouth. As I told you before, you never have to guess at what I'm trying to argue. I am perfectly willing to tell you.
If only you showed the same rhetorical integrity. We might actually have a conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Interesting... Sgt to Private (on a whim): Soldier! Deploy to North Korea! Now! Deploy! Deploy!
Not on a whim. No.
But in other circumstances, a Sergeant absolutely could lawfully order a Private to do exactly that.
They're refering to time frames and geopolitically changing events, as is evidenced by the other conditions and events cited in that paragraph.
Yes they are.
And the same rule applies.
The same rule that made the child of aliens a natural born British subject in England, makes the child of aliens a natural born US Citizen in the United States.
Hmmm... We have direct evidence of the origination of the 'natural born' clause in the Constitution, and your reaction is...
No, my reaction is that you don't have an argument.
The Constitution requires that the President be a natural-born citizen. But it doesn't define natural-born citizen. No subsequent law or ruling ever directly addresses what distinguishes a natural-born citizen from any other plain, old, everyday citizen that did not have to go through the naturalization process. Whatever evidence you have of what the writers of the Constitution meant when they used the phrase is interesting, but it's not the law. There are other writers who may have broader definitions. Moreover, the Jay reference is actually vague and open to interpretation. The court cases that birthers cite are not en pointe because none of those court cases actually deal with defining "natural-born" citizen, though they might use the term in their rulings. No court has actually defined "natural-born" citizen, because the only office that is reserved for natural-born citizens is the Presidency, and no court has ever heard a case on whether a President is legitimately a natural-born citizen or not. The fact that previous Presidents have had foreign-born parents, and may have enjoyed dual citizenships at birth renders your argument meritless, because the weight of precedence (Previous Presidents sharing circumstances of birth similar to President Obama would be legal precedent.) would outweigh correspondence by political persons at the country's founding, and would outweigh analyses of ours and foreign countries' citizenship policies by non-Americans. You can insist all you want that your definition is the proper one, but it's not the legal one, because it's not incorporated into the law at any point in our history. You can fight to change the law to reflect your opinion, but that won't have any bearing on the current presidency. The birther argument is just simply irrelevant to the facts of the matter.
The Constitution defines what it is by defining what it is not.
Alas... the Constitution lacks both definitions. It does not tell us what a natural born citizen is, and it does not tell us what a natural born citizen is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
A Natural Born Citizen is MORE than a Born Citizen.
Not under US law, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
Three words to two words.
Your mathematical skills are noted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
A refined definition for a refined object.
Except that there are no definitions at all.. refined or otherwise.
They're refering to time frames and geopolitically changing events, as is evidenced by the other conditions and events cited in that paragraph.
They're referring to the United States.
You said the quotes had nothing to do with the United States, that the citation only references British subjects. But the second paragraph actually refers to the United States, AFTER the Declaration of Independence, and AFTER the Declaration of Independence would mean that it refers to American citizenship.
The same rule that made the child of aliens a natural born British subject in England, makes the child of aliens a natural born US Citizen in the United States.
Well, it would if we hadn't broken off from England and written our own Constitution.
When the Brits came over here to conscript our sailors, we had ta kill em'.
The Brits, that is!
If'n we'd agotten 'em all, we'd have a clean Gulf today.
"The United States believed that British deserters had a right to become United States citizens. Britain did not recognise naturalised United States citizenship, so in addition to recovering deserters, it considered United States citizens born British liable for impressment. Exacerbating the situation was the widespread use of forged identity papers by sailors. This made it all the more difficult for the Royal Navy to distinguish Americans from non-Americans and led it to impress some Americans who had never been British. (Some gained freedom on appeal.) American anger at impressment grew when British frigates stationed themselves just outside U.S. harbors in U.S. territorial waters and searched ships for contraband and impressed men in view of U.S. shores. "Free trade and sailors' rights" was a rallying cry for the United States throughout the conflict."
Well, it would if we hadn't broken off from England and written our own Constitution.
According to the US Supreme Court, it still is.
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