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View Poll Results: Control of the criminally insane, or guns?
Control or confine the criminally insane. The safety of the public is a greater good than potentially infringing on their rights. 31 68.89%
Further restrict gun ownership of law abiding people. Their rights aren't important as the appearance of doing something. 4 8.89%
Do nothing, violent crime is a price of a free society. 10 22.22%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2011, 10:18 AM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,654,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebknecht View Post
Of course they do but the percentage of gun crime is very low and the murder rate is equally low. There's a correlation between handgun ownership and murder rates. The more people have guns, the more they will want to use them, the more violent the society becomes.
You must drink the kool-aid like water.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:19 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Not really.
Yes it is,really.

Under the GCA, firearms possession by certain categories of individuals is prohibited.
  1. Anyone who has been convicted in a federal court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
  2. Anyone who has been convicted in a state court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding two years, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
  3. Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
  4. Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
  5. Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
  6. Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa. Legal non-immigrant aliens may possess guns if they have a current, valid hunting license.
  7. Anyone who has been discharged under dishonorable conditions from the United States armed forces.
  8. Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
  9. Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner. (added 1996)
  10. Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (added in 1996 by the Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban, or "Lautenberg Amendment.")
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Denmark
657 posts, read 697,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lariat View Post
You must drink the kool-aid like water.
nah we don't have that where I live.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:21 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebknecht View Post
Of course they do but the percentage of gun crime is very low and the murder rate is equally low. There's a correlation between handgun ownership and murder rates. The more people have guns, the more they will want to use them, the more violent the society becomes.
Banning firearms does not stop gun crime then???

It just makes it illegal for law abiding people to own firearms....

How does that make it safer if criminals will still be armed?
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
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Also,if strict gun laws is what makes European nations safer,how do Austria and Switzerland fit in???
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:23 AM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,475,383 times
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Its a false poll (forgot the fallacy exactly), but criminally insane are supposed to be remanded to custody. Hence the criminal coupled with the insane.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,416,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The shooter in Tuscon has a long history of demonstrating symptoms of mental illness. This is true of most perpetrators of violent, mass attacks, rarely are the attacks the first indication that these people are a danger to others. I'm using the term "criminally insane", maybe there is a more appropriate term in todays mental health lexicon. If so, let me know and I'll change it.

My question is, what do we do about it? Can we recognize the symptoms of those that are more likely to kill others, and involentarily confine them? Mandate treatment?

Or should we take away one of many possible tools that a criminally insane person may use? Even if doing so infringes upon the rights of the vast majority of the owners of such a tool that aren't using it for evil?

Or do we just live with the status quo?

We just live with the knowledge that there are people out there wanting to hurt & kill. Their sanity really shouldn't matter. The biggest issue is reluctance of modern people to take matters into their own hands. If the next 4 or 5 people who tried this were shot down where they stand within seconds of starting killing these things would mostly just stop.
As long as they can kill until they are done it will continue. These are mentally disturbed people, but not stupid.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,416,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebknecht View Post
Gun ownership should be severely restricted or better yet, totally banned. That is the only way the US can become as safe as other developed nations. Americans have to realize that guns are the root of the problem, not the other way around.

I like it the way it is, you can always move to a safer country. I cant move to a more free one.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,416,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebknecht View Post
Of course they do but the percentage of gun crime is very low and the murder rate is equally low. There's a correlation between handgun ownership and murder rates. The more people have guns, the more they will want to use them, the more violent the society becomes.

Theres also a much lower rate of people defending themselves sucessfully against crime. Regardless of the crime rate in the USA you can do something about it if attacked, in those other countries even though more rare if you do become a target the outcome is pretty clear, you lose.
More people sucessfully defend themselves with guns in America than can be counted. Why would that be a bad thing?
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,392,645 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The shooter in Tuscon has a long history of demonstrating symptoms of mental illness. This is true of most perpetrators of violent, mass attacks, rarely are the attacks the first indication that these people are a danger to others. I'm using the term "criminally insane", maybe there is a more appropriate term in todays mental health lexicon. If so, let me know and I'll change it.

My question is, what do we do about it? Can we recognize the symptoms of those that are more likely to kill others, and involentarily confine them? Mandate treatment?

Or should we take away one of many possible tools that a criminally insane person may use? Even if doing so infringes upon the rights of the vast majority of the owners of such a tool that aren't using it for evil?

Or do we just live with the status quo?
IF the school had reported him to the local police, instead of the campus police, this may have been prevented.

Arizona has laws on the books that allow for people to be taken against their will to a mental health professional for analysis.

That wasn't done. It should have been, even without the benefit of hindsight. I watched the 60 minutes episode last night covering him, the dude was bat **** crazy, and was that way for at least the last year.

We should control people like this. If they aren't insane, and a mental health professional deems them normal enough, then they'll be released, no harm no foul.

Gun control, well, I wouldn't put up a fight for 30 round glock clips being banned, but I'm not going to go out and campaign for it either. I see no reason for a clip to be that big. Personally, if I want 30 rounds, I'll carry three clips. I don't want to tell other people what to do also, which is why I don't care if someone buys a 30 round clip. If thats your passion, fine with me.
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