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Old 02-20-2011, 11:46 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,450,395 times
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/op...html?src=twrhp

Pretty much the best argument that I've read FOR Obamacare. Yes, the Obamacare legislation is not perfect, but repeal is not the answer. "Health insurance should remain a choice" is just a fallacy of an argument, because for millions of Americans, it is not currently an option. Unless you have a job that offers you health insurance, it is very difficult to buy it as an individual.

It is wrong to assume that the millions of uninsured Americans are uninsured because they don't want health insurance.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:01 PM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,823,143 times
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One of the the fundamental problems with for-profit health insurance is that ...the people who need it the most are the least desirable customers.

They call it "The umbrealla that melts in the rain" product type. It is intended to be sold to the people who will never need it, because selling it to those who need it is a loss-making strategy.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,856,185 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/op...html?src=twrhp

Pretty much the best argument that I've read FOR Obamacare. Yes, the Obamacare legislation is not perfect, but repeal is not the answer. "Health insurance should remain a choice" is just a fallacy of an argument, because for millions of Americans, it is not currently an option. Unless you have a job that offers you health insurance, it is very difficult to buy it as an individual.

It is wrong to assume that the millions of uninsured Americans are uninsured because they don't want health insurance.
If just ONE American is forced to buy health-care when they don't want it then the law should be repealed, period. Nobody should be forced by the government to buy something if they don't want it just to be a citizen.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,509,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
It is wrong to assume that the millions of uninsured Americans are uninsured because they don't want health insurance.
No it isn't.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:18 PM
 
132 posts, read 159,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
If just ONE American is forced to buy health-care when they don't want it then the law should be repealed, period. Nobody should be forced by the government to buy something if they don't want it just to be a citizen.

this argument is flawed. many things are mandatory expenses, taxes are mandatory, businesses have costs which are mandatory to meet regulatory requiremnts etc.

making health insurance mandatory makes it more like a tax/regulatory requirement than a consumption product. but it doesn't make it evil.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:21 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,245,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBIF View Post
this argument is flawed. many things are mandatory expenses, taxes are mandatory, businesses have costs which are mandatory to meet regulatory requiremnts etc.

making health insurance mandatory makes it more like a tax/regulatory requirement than a consumption product. but it doesn't make it evil.
I think it's your argument that is flawed: "because people are forced already, we can force them some more!" This is what libertarians mean with slippery slope
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,810,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
No it isn't.
Yes, it is.

http://epionline.org/studies/oneill_06-2009.pdf

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7553.pdf

I'll summarize a bit (can't copy/paste from these): As income goes up, rates of uninsurance go down.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,419,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBIF View Post
this argument is flawed. many things are mandatory expenses, taxes are mandatory, businesses have costs which are mandatory to meet regulatory requiremnts etc.

making health insurance mandatory makes it more like a tax/regulatory requirement than a consumption product. but it doesn't make it evil.

Not evil, just wrong, as are most of our taxes.
On another note why, if its so all fired important to Obama, cant it be funded with tax dollars by cutting other frivilous things, like lifetime pay & health insurance for congress & our presidents? BY eliminating welfare & all foreign aid. Once we come to grips with the true cose we could start giving away the excess if there is any. But today we just give away more than enough for each of us to have what our elites in Washington get.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:35 PM
 
132 posts, read 159,608 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTrashed View Post
I think it's your argument that is flawed: "because people are forced already, we can force them some more!" This is what libertarians mean with slippery slope

if your idea of liberty is getting screwed by a health insurers then knock yourself out.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,856,185 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBIF View Post
this argument is flawed. many things are mandatory expenses, taxes are mandatory, businesses have costs which are mandatory to meet regulatory requiremnts etc.

making health insurance mandatory makes it more like a tax/regulatory requirement than a consumption product. but it doesn't make it evil.
Taxes are constitutional, businesses aren't private individuals and are treated differently.

Forcing a person to buy health insurance when they don't want or need it is like forcing a person who doesn't own a car to buy car insurance.
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