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I don't have a pension and should not have to contribute the THEIRS.
Yeah they should just educate your kids for nothing. If you don't have kids or private schooled, they still make a difference in your community by changing lives and helping to shape the future.
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Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Sorry, but most of the rest of the work force in this country work as hard or harder than teachers. They work fully 30% more days in a year than the average teacher, with longer hours each day. They don't get unlimited paid "sick time" to go to labor rallies. They don't get to retire on fully taxpayer funded pensions at 55 or 60. Their pay dosn't come off the backs of taxpayers that frequently make far less than they do.
Our public employees, teachers in particular, need a wake up call as to what the real world is like.
I think you should sit in a public classroom and see what their real world is like. You'll be expected to educate your students (30 x 6) while dealing with students who are addicted to drugs, alcohol, victims of rape, disruptive and very inattentive. How many days have you sat in a classroom, just answer the question?? Or is it easier to sit back and judge?
2 big problems, not every state that wishes to follow in Wisconsin's footsteps does pay their "baby sitters" as much, and they still plan to cut.
I know of no state that wishes to emulate Wisconsin's failure in education, but you are correct that most states (all of them in the mid-west) are not paying as much per student as Wisconsin.
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Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa
And I don't think you understand what teaching and learning entails. Have you been to college, what did your professor do? Mine gives a lecture, goes over some of the info in the textbook, and provides feedback on grades and other standards of acceptable academic performance. How does one (the teacher) decide for someone else (the students) that their brains will retain this info, understand it, and be able to recite it properly on a test. Do you realize that a teacher may get a student with undiagnosed LD issues, ESOL difficulties, bad home life, no desire or drive, or better yet one that didn't learn the year before for whatever reason. They have one year to bring students up to that level and don't even have sufficient time to work one on one with those students without sacrificing time with the rest of the gang. I think people's expectations are unrealistic, "We pay teachers to teach, not the parents, not the students. There should be better learning gains. Teachers are lazy government leaches," give me a break. Also do me one favor before you assume to know what the working conditions are like and go volunteer as a teacher's aid at your local schools, and get back to me with how easy it is to make students learn. Tell me how a 9th grade bio teacher is supposed to bring an incoming student who is at a 7th or 8th grade level up to a 10th grade level by the end of the year. Sad thing is, a teacher may work her ass off and get the kid up to 9th grade level (2 full grade level improvements) but since the standardized test is written with end of year curriculum, the teacher, and sadly the student, are still considered to have failed.
By the time someone reaches college they are expected to be able to educate themselves. With, as you say, some minor assistance from the professors. They are suppose to be taught how to educate themselves while still in high school so they can be equipped with the necessary tools by the time they reach college.
If a student does not meet the minimum State educational standards, then they should not be allowed to graduate. Public schools that graduate unqualified students are doing them, and their subsequent teachers, a great injustice. If a student has to spend 1.5 or 2 years in the same grade in order to meet the minimum State educational standard, then that is what has to happen. However, if more than 50% of the class does not meet those standards by the time they are ready to graduate (as in Wisconsin), then there is a serious problem with the way they are being educated that has absolutely nothing to do with the student, parents, or any external factors.
I know of no state that wishes to emulate Wisconsin's failure in education, but you are correct that most states (all of them in the mid-west) are not paying as much per student as Wisconsin.
By the time someone reaches college they are expected to be able to educate themselves. With, as you say, some minor assistance from the professors. They are suppose to be taught how to educate themselves while still in high school so they can be equipped with the necessary tools by the time they reach college.
If a student does not meet the minimum State educational standards, then they should not be allowed to graduate. Public schools that graduate unqualified students are doing them, and their subsequent teachers, a great injustice. If a student has to spend 1.5 or 2 years in the same grade in order to meet the minimum State educational standard, then that is what has to happen. However, if more than 50% of the class does not meet those standards by the time they are ready to graduate (as in Wisconsin), then there is a serious problem with the way they are being educated that has absolutely nothing to do with the student, parents, or any external factors.
I can agree with you that this is a serious problem but I implore you to look deeper for a reason other than the false idea of lazy teachers.
Teachers perform a uniquely important job - educating future generations of Americans. They work long hours, are under respected and under appreciated. They need summers off to unwind and prepare for the coming school year. They should not be forced to contribute to their health insurance. They have earned their pensions and should not be forced to delay retirement to age 60 or 65.
Give teachers a break!
I'm a teacher. You're wrong. Teachers are pretty well compensated for their work.
Yeah they should just educate your kids for nothing. If you don't have kids or private schooled, they still make a difference in your community by changing lives and helping to shape the future.
I think you should sit in a public classroom and see what their real world is like. You'll be expected to educate your students (30 x 6) while dealing with students who are addicted to drugs, alcohol, victims of rape, disruptive and very inattentive. How many days have you sat in a classroom, just answer the question?? Or is it easier to sit back and judge?
I agree with you on the issues of lack of respect from students and the disruption issues. I think teachers need the authority to remove problem children from the classroom and send them home. It's the parents responsibility to parent, it's the teachers responsibility to educate. Too many parents fail.
Teachers perform a uniquely important job - educating future generations of Americans. They work long hours, are under respected and under appreciated. They need summers off to unwind and prepare for the coming school year. They should not be forced to contribute to their health insurance. They have earned their pensions and should not be forced to delay retirement to age 60 or 65.
Give teachers a break!
1)Good teachers are respected and supported.
2)Teachers work, on an annualized basis, just as much as any other job, and probably less than others.
3)Everyone needs time off.
4)Everyone is responsible for their own inurance and for taking care of themselves.
5)A pension is a private matter between employer and employee. Only those two groups can decide whether it's been earned or not.
6)No one is guaranteed retirement.
Teachers perform a uniquely important job - educating future generations of Americans. They work long hours, are under respected and under appreciated. They need summers off to unwind and prepare for the coming school year. They should not be forced to contribute to their health insurance. They have earned their pensions and should not be forced to delay retirement to age 60 or 65.
Give teachers a break!
They should be paid whatever the market demands. They should not get any special privileges.
They should help pay for their health insurance and retirement just like everyone else.
I agree with you on the issues of lack of respect from students and the disruption issues. I think teachers need the authority to remove problem children from the classroom and send them home. It's the parents responsibility to parent, it's the teachers responsibility to educate. Too many parents fail.
All too true. However, sending students home who are disruptive isn't much of an answer. Here in my neck of the woods we have something called ALE. Think of it as an alternative school for the wayward. It's best to keep them in school. It's not uncommon for them to tire of it and earn their way back into regular classes.
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