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Old 03-06-2011, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,980,764 times
Reputation: 4207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
The problem with those countries wasn't that they had state-managed economies, it was that their governments were (are) corrupt. Take away the corruption, and a planned economy will thrive.

You mentioned those countries, what about:

Sweden
Norway
Finland
Denmark
France
Brazil
Canada

How are these countries doing right now? Much better than we were in 2008, that's for sure.

Capitalism causes a temporary economic boom, followed by a deep depression. Socialism provides slower economic growth, but also prevents deep recessions and depressions.
To be fair that's actually the Fed and the government rigging the economy to favor their corporate masters.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
.We all have a responsibility to take care of each other.
Where do you get this idea from???
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,729,131 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
.We all have a responsibility to take care of each other
I could use some money! P.M. me and I'll send you my address.......................
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:40 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,244,853 times
Reputation: 912
It's sad that no matter how much government infringement in the market some people will still blame capitalism and the free market. The more government intervenes in health care, education, banking, energy, the more expensive and in worse shape they get, but nooo capitalism is the culprit. Entrepreneurs who provide us with goods and services are greedy and evil, but politicians who produce nothing but instead steal stuff from one group of people to give it to others are somehow the good guys and if their welfare schemes don't work just blame the producers and freedom.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:44 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
And these companies are shooting themselves in the foot in the long run anyway. Who's going to be able to afford buying their surplus useless crap anyway once they destroy their market (America) from the middle class outwards? The ****-poor asians/latin-americans that they pay a pittance wage? These banks can't keep loaning Americans money that doesn't exist and we as taxpayers can't afford to keep bailing out these banks.


The problem with America and corporations is that America is both their premiere market and their employee base... you can't impoverish your buyer base. A broke market = a non-existent market.
If their product is "useless crap" they are probably bound for failure anyway.

Do you understand business at all?
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,980,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
I started my business with negative net worth. You certainly do not need wealth to do anything you want in this wonderful country.
Yeah in this country but your anecdote included moving to India.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,980,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
The current cash flow is a temporary setback. We'll begin to grow again. I wouldn't be worried about our buying power.
No it's the result of a long term structural problem and globalization. We are exporting a lot of good paying middle class manufacturing jobs that are being replaced with minimum wage "service" jobs. A lot of the people who lost their jobs lack the knowledge, skills, ability, and education to find another job of equal pay.
While on the other hand our education system is abysmal so we're not training and educating our children properly. Not to mention most of the blue collar jobs that a large segment of the population was destined for are gone now leaving those kids nowhere to go but down really. It's not realistic for every person to start their own business.
Not to mention the dollar is losing it's buying power so everyday we may make the same amount of money we did yesterday but it won't stretch as far as it did yesterday. This is a problem that will cause long term problems. Also as we watch oil and prices shoot through the roof the cost of doing business will go up and prices will keep going up. So we're making less money and the cost of living is going up.

I have found this blog to be very informative:
Quote:
From now on, whenever you hear the term "the global economy" you should immediately equate it with the destruction of the U.S. middle class. Over the past several decades, the American economy has been slowly but surely merged into the emerging one world economic system. Unfortunately for the middle class, much of the rest of the world does not have the same minimum wage laws and worker protections that we do. Therefore, the massive global corporations that now dominate our economy are able to pay workers in other countries slave labor wages and import the products that they make into the United States to compete with products made by "expensive" American workers. This has resulted in a mass exodus of manufacturing facilities and jobs from the United States. But without good, high paying jobs the U.S. middle class cannot continue to be the U.S middle class. The only thing that the vast majority of Americans have to offer in the economic marketplace is their labor. Sadly, that labor has now been dramatically devalued. American workers now must directly compete for jobs with millions upon millions of workers on the other side of the world that toil away for 15 hours a day at slave labor wages. This is causing jobs to leave the United States at an almost unbelievable rate, and it is putting tremendous downward pressure on the wages of millions of jobs that are still in the United States.
So when you hear terms such as "globalization" and "the global economy", it is important to keep in mind that those are code words for the emerging one world economic system that is systematically wiping out the U.S. middle class.
A one world labor pool means that the standard of living for the U.S. middle class will continue falling toward the standard of living in the third world.
We keep hearing about how the U.S. economy is being transformed from a "manufacturing economy" into a "service economy". But "service jobs" are generally much lower paying than "manufacturing jobs". The number of good paying "middle class jobs" in the United States is rapidly decreasing. So how can the U.S. middle class survive in such an environment?
What makes things even worse for manufacturers in the United States is that other nations often impose a "value-added tax" of 20 percent or more on U.S. goods entering their shores and yet most of the time we do not reciprocate with similar taxes.
But whenever someone mentions how incredibly unfair and unbalanced our trade agreements with other nations are, they are immediately labeled as a "protectionist".
Well, someone should be looking out for U.S. interests when it comes to trade, because the current state of the global economy is ripping the U.S. middle class to shreds.
Right now, the United States consumes far more wealth than it produces. This nation buys much, much more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. This is called a "trade deficit", and it is one of the most important economic statistics. The U.S. runs a massive trade deficit every single year, and it is wiping out our national wealth, it is destroying our surviving industries and it is absolutely shredding middle class America.
We cannot allow tens of thousands of factories to continue to leave the United States. We cannot allow millions of jobs to continue to be "outsourced" and "offshored". We cannot allow tens of billions of dollars of our national wealth to continue to be transferred into foreign hands every single month.
The truth is that the global economy is bad for America. The following are 23 facts which prove that globalism is pushing the standard of living of the middle class down to third world levels....
Global Economy? 23 Facts Which Prove That Globalism Is Pushing The Standard Of Living Of The Middle Class Down To Third World Levels
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:59 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Less than half of the US population is even in the workforce. Keep in mind that 300 million includes children, babies, incarcerated people, students, retirees, disabled and unable to work and discouraged workers (unemployed people who have given up looking for work). So it's only 100-120 million employed people, many of which are "underemployed," working jobs for which they are overqualified. Also, I'm sure many of them are walking on eggshells fearing for their jobs, waiting for the ax to fall. They don't have time to think to disagree with me -- they're just trying to eke out a living while the fat cats make obscene profits off them.

Remember, the top 1% of people own 40% of US wealth. Think about that.
1. You stated earlier that there were 30 million unemployed. YOU assumed that 10% of the population of 300 million were unemployed. So now the number of unemployed is about 10-12 million.

2. As far as 1% owning 40% of the wealth, so what? They earned it. The federal government owns something like 60% of the land.

If not for 'fat cats", there would be no middle class.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,980,764 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
1. You stated earlier that there were 30 million unemployed. YOU assumed that 10% of the population of 300 million were unemployed. So now the number of unemployed is about 10-12 million.

2. As far as 1% owning 40% of the wealth, so what? They earned it. The federal government owns something like 60% of the land.

If not for 'fat cats", there would be no middle class.
How do you know they all earned it? I'm skeptical at best.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:04 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perlier View Post
You are dead wrong. What group of people have had their wealth most increased over the past, say, 10 to 15 years? Certainly not the people who need welfare (just a hint). You are eating up the propaganda given to you every day by the political party who represents the RICH PEOPLE THE VERY FEW RICH PEOPLE AND CORPORATIONS. They don't represent YOU. They are not out there fighting for people who make $50K a year. Just do a little research on WHERE the wealthy has shifted in the country and the amount. You'll have to take off your blinders though in order to comprehend what you will find. RICH PEOPLE WANT YOUR MONEY BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE VERY, VERY GREEDY. It's a game of who can die with the MOST MONEY. Get a clue.
Many middle class industrious, hard working, sacrificing, risk taking people have done very well. Myself included.

People like my brother, who simply woke up every morning, went to his hourly wage job and never invested or took risk did not.

Should I share mine with him?
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