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I'll never fly if I can take the train based on my experiences over the past few years.
Then you are in the minority.
I can get from Chicago to Denver in a 2 hour flight. Or 18 hours & 15 minutes via Amtrak. Even if you include arriving early for security at the airport, you're still talking 4 hours vs 18 hours. Hell, it's faster to drive than to take the train.
This goes up the further the distance. Chicago to LA? 4 hour flight vs upwards of 2 days on Amtrak.
Not to mention, flying is often cheaper than taking the train.
Private passenger rail won't be profitable until the government stops pouring billions of our tax dollars into road construction and maintenance.
If you don;t think the taxes and fees collected for automobiles directly and indirectly do not cover the cost of the roads you are living a dream world.
Federal and state fuel taxes part of which is used to fund mass transit.
Registration fees.
Title transfer fees.
License fees.
Sales tax on vehicles that can often rival the fuel tax if the car is bought and sold three times.
The $100 speeding ticket that morphs into $250 because of all the extra things added on it supports.
If I park/get a ticket/get towed in Philly half the fee is equally split between the city general fund and the school district.
On top of that you can throw in the enormous amounts taxes paid by oil companies, automobile companies, the plethora of companies that service vehicles and all of their employees.
That's the short list, in the meantime someone riding Amtrak has a fare that doesn't even cover those costs and is eating a $9 hamburger that cost Amtrak $16 to make.
If you don;t think the taxes and fees collected for automobiles directly and indirectly do not cover the cost of the roads you are living a dream world.
Federal and state fuel taxes part of which is used to fund mass transit.
Registration fees.
Title transfer fees.
License fees.
Sales tax on vehicles that can often rival the fuel tax if the car is bought and sold three times.
The $100 speeding ticket that morphs into $250 because of all the extra things added on it supports.
If I park/get a ticket/get towed in Philly half the fee is equally split between the city general fund and the school district.
On top of that you can throw in the enormous amounts taxes paid by oil companies, automobile companies, the plethora of companies that service vehicles and all of their employees.
That's the short list, in the meantime someone riding Amtrak has a fare that doesn't even cover those costs and is eating a $9 hamburger that cost Amtrak $16 to make.
Not quite accurate.
On average overall Amtrak's fare recovery rates is around 71%, one of the best of passenger rail in the world and beating many US commuter RR or mass transit (subway).
Now individually yes, certain trains/routes are loss leaders. These are mostly long distance trains and or those outside of the Northeast or certain west coast areas. Amtrak like the private railroads before them would *LOVE* to drop unprofitable lines. But just a mention of such a thing gets some grandmother in Podunk, USA who takes the train once a year to see her grandchildren in a lather. So she writes to her Congressman who leans on Amtrak and the rest as they say is history.
As have stated numerous times previously, nearly everything about passenger rail and its service is or was subsidized. The private RRs back in the day didn't charge passengers full cost of meals or snacks, and no one is going to do so today.
I can get from Chicago to Denver in a 2 hour flight. Or 18 hours & 15 minutes via Amtrak. Even if you include arriving early for security at the airport, you're still talking 4 hours vs 18 hours. Hell, it's faster to drive than to take the train.
This goes up the further the distance. Chicago to LA? 4 hour flight vs upwards of 2 days on Amtrak.
Not to mention, flying is often cheaper than taking the train.
A bit of nostalgia for the golden era of rail travel (1940's through 1950's) when the "Super Chief" was the last word in rail road travel and luxury. It was "the" train from Chicago to Los Angeles, and everyone who was anyone (or wanted to be someone) took it: THE SUPER CHIEF
Fast forward to modern times where Amtrak's Southwest Chief is a shadow of the former Santa Fe "Super Chief"
As for travel times from Chicago to LA via rail; best time for the Santa Fe "Super Chief" was around 36 hours. If am reading timetables correctly normal time was around 39 hours. During WWII this grew to 41 hours.
It really isn't fair to compare rail to air for travel in terms of speed and time spent moving alone. Railroad crews are mandated by federal laws to limited hours at work, just like airplane pilots. However unlike the latter a train will have to stop and change crews. Suppose way around this would be as with some long haul airplane routes; have more than required crew up front so sets can swap out, but that is expensive.
Also remember long distance trains rarely ran non-stop between points. If nothing else fresh provisions would have to be taken on somewhere. Also often you had intermediate stops (hence the usual word "Limited") along the way were passengers could get off or on. In the best of all worlds crew changes, food, etc.. could all be done at one of these intermediate stops.
Just be thankful trains moved from coal/oil fueled steam power; then you'd have more stops for the locomotive to take on water and maybe fuel.
All of them thru airports and associated infrastructure.
>
Just be thankful trains moved from coal/oil fueled steam power; then you'd have more stops for the locomotive to take on water and maybe fuel.<
Most of what was in a steam engines tender was water, not fuel. They (passenger trains) took on water on the fly after ca 1920. They would have to slow down to ~40 MPH if I remember correctly. Steam locomotives were VERY expensive to maintain and thus diesels took over.
All of them thru airports and associated infrastructure.
>
Just be thankful trains moved from coal/oil fueled steam power; then you'd have more stops for the locomotive to take on water and maybe fuel.<
Most of what was in a steam engines tender was water, not fuel. They (passenger trains) took on water on the fly after ca 1920. They would have to slow down to ~40 MPH if I remember correctly. Steam locomotives were VERY expensive to maintain and thus diesels took over.
Not all American railroads had water pans, nor were all steam locomotives equipped to take water from track pans.
The famous "Niagara" steam locomotives of the New York Central did however and track pans were instrumental in helping those crack trains on time to what was a brutal schedule.
For those that do not know what a track pan is, see 2:00 onwards:
All of them thru airports and associated infrastructure.
>
Just be thankful trains moved from coal/oil fueled steam power; then you'd have more stops for the locomotive to take on water and maybe fuel.<
Most of what was in a steam engines tender was water, not fuel. They (passenger trains) took on water on the fly after ca 1920. They would have to slow down to ~40 MPH if I remember correctly. Steam locomotives were VERY expensive to maintain and thus diesels took over.
Yes, steam locomotives were *very* expensive to run and maintain. Oil could be slightly cheaper, but overall either way diesel-electric ate steam locomotive's lunch.
It varied by country and their laws/regulations, but all steam locomotives were mandated to be pulled out of service and undergo a complete overhaul. More routine maintenance (shed days) occurred every twelve to fifteen days or so, again depending upon the RR and the locomotive. In any event for most railroads this meant often a third or more (or less) of their steam locomotives were laid up in shop.
In theory American railroads should have saved vast sums when they went over to diesel; but the unions weren't having it and did all they could to preserve jobs. This often meant feather bedding which in the end helped drive many railroads out of business.
I can get from Chicago to Denver in a 2 hour flight. Or 18 hours & 15 minutes via Amtrak. Even if you include arriving early for security at the airport, you're still talking 4 hours vs 18 hours. Hell, it's faster to drive than to take the train.
This goes up the further the distance. Chicago to LA? 4 hour flight vs upwards of 2 days on Amtrak.
Not to mention, flying is often cheaper than taking the train.
It's been said many times, (probably in this thread, too) that trips longer than--I think--450-650 miles, are best taken by air. But, you also ignored SunGrins' point that Amtrak's routes and timetables are often designed to fail. (El Paso--not Chicago--to Denver)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
If you don;t think the taxes and fees collected for automobiles directly and indirectly do not cover the cost of the roads you are living a dream world.
Federal and state fuel taxes part of which is used to fund mass transit.
Registration fees.
Title transfer fees.
License fees.
Sales tax on vehicles that can often rival the fuel tax if the car is bought and sold three times.
The $100 speeding ticket that morphs into $250 because of all the extra things added on it supports.
If I park/get a ticket/get towed in Philly half the fee is equally split between the city general fund and the school district.
On top of that you can throw in the enormous amounts taxes paid by oil companies, automobile companies, the plethora of companies that service vehicles and all of their employees.
That's the short list, in the meantime someone riding Amtrak has a fare that doesn't even cover those costs and is eating a $9 hamburger that cost Amtrak $16 to make.
If you think the taxes and fees collected for automobiles cover the cost of all roads, you are living a dream world.
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