Why does this woman need a birth certificate when Obama doesn't? (governor, support)

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by bluesjuke

The issue came up that he may not be eligible.
Since he is/was going to be President some American people want the assurance that he is indeed eligible.

Issues "come up."

Some of them are legitimate. Some of them are not.

Of those that are not, some have come up purely out of innocent ignorance. And some are fabricated out of malicious intent.

The historic paper trail of the "Birther movement" is extensive. It is characterized by the following.

Even after three years, there is actually no evidence whatsoever for its original claim; that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. This of course contrasts with his public release of the document prescribed by the United States government as "proof of US citizenship at birth."

Now... here is where we begin to encounter proof of malicious intent. In the absence of evidence for the Birther claim a vast industry of deliberately manufactured falsehoods has grow up around it. These are not just generalized impressions, but fake details such as the name of a Kenyan birth hospital (in the wrong city of course) or lies about testimony by his grandmother and other relatives that never existed.

These are not misunderstandings... they are willful fabrications.

What recreational chemical would account for your hallucination that the reason Birthers are not satisfied is because it has never been "directly addressed" or because no "definitive answer" has been given? People who are intent on an egregious campaign of lies and untruths of this sort can have no genuine interest in "definitive answers."

Their agenda is elsewhere.

All the fall back positions of Birthism (Vattelism etc.) further show that the issue is not even really eligibility... the issue is a unique emotional hatred of this particular President. There are (by my last count) no fewer than six different "theories" for declaring him ineligible most of them completely unrelated to each other. What prior President or Presidential candidate has ever faced more than one? What miraculous alignment of the planets could generate such an astounding set of exceptional coincidences?

Other, of course, than them all arising out of some same dark place in the Birther soul?

It is certainly foolish to speculate what motivates any particular Birther to embrace such an intellectually vacuous position with such passion. Some are clearly mentally ill, and for them I can hold no resentment. Others are actually making money on the issue... or trying to by (for example) trying to sell forged Kenyan birth certificates on eBay or plagiarizing the writing of other Birther's and attaching it to a PayPal account. Some are merely attention whores who thrill to see their names mentioned on blogs or in print. For some it is genuinely political... though we have had more liberal Presidents than Obama without them facing such frothing objection.

So what is it about this particular President that drives such a level of irrational, dishonest and personal attack?

We cannot honestly ignore that the undercurrent that fuels and sustains the Birther movement as a phenomenon can have no genuine explanation other than racism. One need only spend a day or two perusing the hard core Birther sites like Post & Email or Freerepublic to be smacked in the face with unrefined hatred of this president (and his wife and children!) specifically because of the color of his skin. Many do not even attempt to hide it.

Are Birthers racist? Some are and some are not. I for one would never accuse any individual of racism without explicit evidence of that fact.

But is Birthism racist?

Any thinking person who doubts that is self deluded. And to imagine otherwise is to remove from the movement any hope of even making sense of it. Its other asserted motivations fall one by one to the most casual examination. It can have nothing to do with affection for the Constitution as it is rife with attempts to casually alter, ignore or subvert that founding document. It cannot be a "patriot's" issue given the consistent and explicit sedition preached by its leaders.

The only motivation that even gives it the thinnest dignity of "rationality" is that a black man should not be President of the United States.

I will be accused here of "playing the race card." But the serious reader will note that I did no such thing. I accused no individual of racism, and tried to shortstop no argument with that accusation. I have simply discussed the movement in context... a context that I contend no honest observer can deny.

But make no mistake... that is also why the movement must be fought. Not because it threatens Obama's Presidency... it does not.

Racism is evil and it must be opposed by good people.

[jackmccullough]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Issues "come up."

Some of them are legitimate. Some of them are not.

Of those that are not, some have come up purely out of innocent ignorance. And some are fabricated out of malicious intent.

The historic paper trail of the "Birther movement" is extensive. It is characterized by the following.

Even after three years, there is actually no evidence whatsoever for its original claim; that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. This of course contrasts with his public release of the document prescribed by the United States government as "proof of US citizenship at birth."

Now... here is where we begin to encounter proof of malicious intent. In the absence of evidence for the Birther claim a vast industry of deliberately manufactured falsehoods has grow up around it. These are not just generalized impressions, but fake details such as the name of a Kenyan birth hospital (in the wrong city of course) or lies about testimony by his grandmother and other relatives that never existed.

These are not misunderstandings... they are willful fabrications.

What recreational chemical would account for your hallucination that the reason Birthers are not satisfied is because it has never been "directly addressed" or because no "definitive answer" has been given? People who are intent on an egregious campaign of lies and untruths of this sort can have no genuine interest in "definitive answers."

Their agenda is elsewhere.

All the fall back positions of Birthism (Vattelism etc.) further show that the issue is not even really eligibility... the issue is a unique emotional hatred of this particular President. There are (by my last count) no fewer than six different "theories" for declaring him ineligible most of them completely unrelated to each other. What prior President or Presidential candidate has ever faced more than one? What miraculous alignment of the planets could generate such an astounding set of exceptional coincidences?

Other, of course, than them all arising out of some same dark place in the Birther soul?

It is certainly foolish to speculate what motivates any particular Birther to embrace such an intellectually vacuous position with such passion. Some are clearly mentally ill, and for them I can hold no resentment. Others are actually making money on the issue... or trying to by (for example) trying to sell forged Kenyan birth certificates on eBay or plagiarizing the writing of other Birther's and attaching it to a PayPal account. Some are merely attention whores who thrill to see their names mentioned on blogs or in print. For some it is genuinely political... though we have had more liberal Presidents than Obama without them facing such frothing objection.

So what is it about this particular President that drives such a level of irrational, dishonest and personal attack?

We cannot honestly ignore that the undercurrent that fuels and sustains the Birther movement as a phenomenon can have no genuine explanation other than racism. One need only spend a day or two perusing the hard core Birther sites like Post & Email or Freerepublic to be smacked in the face with unrefined hatred of this president (and his wife and children!) specifically because of the color of his skin. Many do not even attempt to hide it.

Are Birthers racist? Some are and some are not. I for one would never accuse any individual of racism without explicit evidence of that fact.

But is Birthism racist?

Any thinking person who doubts that is self deluded. And to imagine otherwise is to remove from the movement any hope of even making sense of it. Its other asserted motivations fall one by one to the most casual examination. It can have nothing to do with affection for the Constitution as it is rife with attempts to casually alter, ignore or subvert that founding document. It cannot be a "patriot's" issue given the consistent and explicit sedition preached by its leaders.

The only motivation that even gives it the thinnest dignity of "rationality" is that a black man should not be President of the United States.

I will be accused here of "playing the race card." But the serious reader will note that I did no such thing. I accused no individual of racism, and tried to shortstop no argument with that accusation. I have simply discussed the movement in context... a context that I contend no honest observer can deny.

But make no mistake... that is also why the movement must be fought. Not because it threatens Obama's Presidency... it does not.

Racism is evil and it must be opposed by good people.

This is absolutely, incontrovertibly, 100% correct.

[Swigchow]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Issues "come up."

Some of them are legitimate. Some of them are not.

Of those that are not, some have come up purely out of innocent ignorance. And some are fabricated out of malicious intent.

The historic paper trail of the "Birther movement" is extensive. It is characterized by the following.

Even after three years, there is actually no evidence whatsoever for its original claim; that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. This of course contrasts with his public release of the document prescribed by the United States government as "proof of US citizenship at birth."

Now... here is where we begin to encounter proof of malicious intent. In the absence of evidence for the Birther claim a vast industry of deliberately manufactured falsehoods has grow up around it. These are not just generalized impressions, but fake details such as the name of a Kenyan birth hospital (in the wrong city of course) or lies about testimony by his grandmother and other relatives that never existed.

These are not misunderstandings... they are willful fabrications.

What recreational chemical would account for your hallucination that the reason Birthers are not satisfied is because it has never been "directly addressed" or because no "definitive answer" has been given? People who are intent on an egregious campaign of lies and untruths of this sort can have no genuine interest in "definitive answers."

Their agenda is elsewhere.

All the fall back positions of Birthism (Vattelism etc.) further show that the issue is not even really eligibility... the issue is a unique emotional hatred of this particular President. There are (by my last count) no fewer than six different "theories" for declaring him ineligible most of them completely unrelated to each other. What prior President or Presidential candidate has ever faced more than one? What miraculous alignment of the planets could generate such an astounding set of exceptional coincidences?

Other, of course, than them all arising out of some same dark place in the Birther soul?

It is certainly foolish to speculate what motivates any particular Birther to embrace such an intellectually vacuous position with such passion. Some are clearly mentally ill, and for them I can hold no resentment. Others are actually making money on the issue... or trying to by (for example) trying to sell forged Kenyan birth certificates on eBay or plagiarizing the writing of other Birther's and attaching it to a PayPal account. Some are merely attention whores who thrill to see their names mentioned on blogs or in print. For some it is genuinely political... though we have had more liberal Presidents than Obama without them facing such frothing objection.

So what is it about this particular President that drives such a level of irrational, dishonest and personal attack?

We cannot honestly ignore that the undercurrent that fuels and sustains the Birther movement as a phenomenon can have no genuine explanation other than racism. One need only spend a day or two perusing the hard core Birther sites like Post & Email or Freerepublic to be smacked in the face with unrefined hatred of this president (and his wife and children!) specifically because of the color of his skin. Many do not even attempt to hide it.

Are Birthers racist? Some are and some are not. I for one would never accuse any individual of racism without explicit evidence of that fact.

But is Birthism racist?

Any thinking person who doubts that is self deluded. And to imagine otherwise is to remove from the movement any hope of even making sense of it. Its other asserted motivations fall one by one to the most casual examination. It can have nothing to do with affection for the Constitution as it is rife with attempts to casually alter, ignore or subvert that founding document. It cannot be a "patriot's" issue given the consistent and explicit sedition preached by its leaders.

The only motivation that even gives it the thinnest dignity of "rationality" is that a black man should not be President of the United States.

I will be accused here of "playing the race card." But the serious reader will note that I did no such thing. I accused no individual of racism, and tried to shortstop no argument with that accusation. I have simply discussed the movement in context... a context that I contend no honest observer can deny.

But make no mistake... that is also why the movement must be fought. Not because it threatens Obama's Presidency... it does not.

Racism is evil and it must be opposed by good people.

Sense, logic, and facts won't sway these people. There intent is to do harm.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Here it is:



He has shown it. This should be over. Keeping it alive only shows how ridiculous this whole line of argument is.

Race: African



Seriously? That is about as fake as it gets.

1961... African!!!! I guarantee in 1961 that would have said Negro.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

Well she wants to be declared the oldest human on Earth by Guinness and he just wants to be President of the US. She was born in 1892 and not many black people were issued birth certificates back then. I think that a wholly black woman may be as certifiable as Obama is.

Do you think it might have something to do with trying to verify her age

[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by BentBow

Race: African



Seriously? That is about as fake as it gets.

1961... African!!!! I guarantee in 1961 that would have said Negro.

So then why did the Republican governor of Hawaii say nothing about it for over two years? In fact, why did she and her Republican-appointee director of the state's Department of Health make several statements which affirmed that the birth certificate is legitimate? How come those two Republicans did not make any efforts to bring this to the public?

I'm also interested in the factual evidence that leads you to "guarantee" what a birth certificate would've had for a person's race in 1961.

[Austinitegirl]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Issues "come up."

Some of them are legitimate. Some of them are not.

Of those that are not, some have come up purely out of innocent ignorance. And some are fabricated out of malicious intent.

The historic paper trail of the "Birther movement" is extensive. It is characterized by the following.

Even after three years, there is actually no evidence whatsoever for its original claim; that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. This of course contrasts with his public release of the document prescribed by the United States government as "proof of US citizenship at birth."

Now... here is where we begin to encounter proof of malicious intent. In the absence of evidence for the Birther claim a vast industry of deliberately manufactured falsehoods has grow up around it. These are not just generalized impressions, but fake details such as the name of a Kenyan birth hospital (in the wrong city of course) or lies about testimony by his grandmother and other relatives that never existed.

These are not misunderstandings... they are willful fabrications.

What recreational chemical would account for your hallucination that the reason Birthers are not satisfied is because it has never been "directly addressed" or because no "definitive answer" has been given? People who are intent on an egregious campaign of lies and untruths of this sort can have no genuine interest in "definitive answers."

Their agenda is elsewhere.

All the fall back positions of Birthism (Vattelism etc.) further show that the issue is not even really eligibility... the issue is a unique emotional hatred of this particular President. There are (by my last count) no fewer than six different "theories" for declaring him ineligible most of them completely unrelated to each other. What prior President or Presidential candidate has ever faced more than one? What miraculous alignment of the planets could generate such an astounding set of exceptional coincidences?

Other, of course, than them all arising out of some same dark place in the Birther soul?

It is certainly foolish to speculate what motivates any particular Birther to embrace such an intellectually vacuous position with such passion. Some are clearly mentally ill, and for them I can hold no resentment. Others are actually making money on the issue... or trying to by (for example) trying to sell forged Kenyan birth certificates on eBay or plagiarizing the writing of other Birther's and attaching it to a PayPal account. Some are merely attention whores who thrill to see their names mentioned on blogs or in print. For some it is genuinely political... though we have had more liberal Presidents than Obama without them facing such frothing objection.

So what is it about this particular President that drives such a level of irrational, dishonest and personal attack?

We cannot honestly ignore that the undercurrent that fuels and sustains the Birther movement as a phenomenon can have no genuine explanation other than racism. One need only spend a day or two perusing the hard core Birther sites like Post & Email or Freerepublic to be smacked in the face with unrefined hatred of this president (and his wife and children!) specifically because of the color of his skin. Many do not even attempt to hide it.

Are Birthers racist? Some are and some are not. I for one would never accuse any individual of racism without explicit evidence of that fact.

But is Birthism racist?

Any thinking person who doubts that is self deluded. And to imagine otherwise is to remove from the movement any hope of even making sense of it. Its other asserted motivations fall one by one to the most casual examination. It can have nothing to do with affection for the Constitution as it is rife with attempts to casually alter, ignore or subvert that founding document. It cannot be a "patriot's" issue given the consistent and explicit sedition preached by its leaders.

The only motivation that even gives it the thinnest dignity of "rationality" is that a black man should not be President of the United States.

I will be accused here of "playing the race card." But the serious reader will note that I did no such thing. I accused no individual of racism, and tried to shortstop no argument with that accusation. I have simply discussed the movement in context... a context that I contend no honest observer can deny.

But make no mistake... that is also why the movement must be fought. Not because it threatens Obama's Presidency... it does not.

Racism is evil and it must be opposed by good people.

^Winning!!!

Darn you HD and all your stupid... logic!!! ((shakes fist))

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by bc42gb43

I'm also interested in the factual evidence that leads you to "guarantee" what a birth certificate would've had for a person's race in 1961.

Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by ergohead

Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well I'm convinced. I can't argue with a link to a wikipedia article that has nothing to do with what a man from Kenya would say his race was on his son's birth certificate. The lack of context provided here makes it clear that birth certificates only allowed somebody to check a box, and would have ignored somebody who identified himself as African and just put in negro instead.

The lack of creativity in this post also makes it clear why relevant Republican officials in Hawaii would do nothing for over two years as a result of this massive fraud!

Well done, I only wish that a few of my posts could show the thought, logic and articulation that you have provided in your post that consisted of nothing but a link to a wikipedia article!

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by bc42gb43

Well I'm convinced. I can't argue with a link to a wikipedia article that has nothing to do with what a man from Kenya would say his race was on his son's birth certificate. The lack of context provided here makes it clear that birth certificates only allowed somebody to check a box, and would have ignored somebody who identified himself as African and just put in negro instead.

The lack of creativity in this post also makes it clear why relevant Republican officials in Hawaii would do nothing for over two years as a result of this massive fraud!

Well done, I only wish that a few of my posts could show the thought, logic and articulation that you have provided in your post that consisted of nothing but a link to a wikipedia article!

That's a lotta words for someone who doesn't have anything to say!

"The word Negro is used in the English-speaking world to refer to a person of black ancestry or appearance, whether of African descent or not, prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s."

Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia