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For the record, here in Massachusetts it was reported that the DNA came from one of his sisters who died. The DNA test was done at Mass General Hospital in Boston.
At the time of 9/11 there were a lot of OBL's FIFTY brothers and sisters living in the Boston area and they were allowed to fly out of the country right away. From all accounts, they were normal people and didn't even like their infamous brother.
Whether this sister was someone who had stayed behind in the US or whether she died some time ago, I don't know but on the tv it said "had died recently."
After reading some of these posts....I guess for some people your big contribution to your country is sitting on a forum saying negative things about a military force who bother to risk their lives daily so you can remain absolutely worthless.
What are they risking their lives for? Wars of aggression makes us less safe.
I resent their deployment to countries who have not threatened us directly.
Maybe don't watch so many John Wayne movies?
1-high-quality DNA test are done in days, not hours, AFAIK. If someone else can prove differently, please link. The reports last night showed DNA confirmations were made just a few hours after the event, which I find hard to understand.
Freshman biology anyone?
It depends on the testing method. Some testing methods take many man hours, which after an influx of Springer's Baby Daddies, can cause a laboratory back-up that results in several weeks from sample collection to reporting.
There are faster testing methods such as PCR that only take about 1-2 hours, start-to-finish. I personally did this test in a college-level freshman biology class. Again, even with the fast method, collection to reporting back to Baby Daddy can be a few weeks, but prettttttty sure the POTUS can pull a couple-a strings to get his Baby Daddy bumped up to the top of the priority list with immediate reporting.
For confirmation - dust off your old freshman biology text book, or check the internets (it's a system of tubes).
2-the mission objective was to kill, not capture - why? Why would Bin laden not be used as an intelligence source, a walking library of al qaeda info? It is one thing to have given the team on the ground the option to use deadly force if confronted, but the mission was a kill-set from the get-go, which makes no sense. Further, parading him chains, either in Gitmo or elsewhere under the US control of the US, would have been highly demoralizing to the al qaeda animals and the muslim filth supporting them. How could the US intelligence and military not have taken advantage of this opportunity?
Many answers to this ranging from the ole the-only-way-he-would-give-us-intel-is-to-torture-him-but-that's-kind-of-illegal-but-we-do-it-anyway-even-though-torture-is-not-a-definitively-proven-method-of-collecting-legitimate-intel argument to the ole if-we-capture-him-where-the-eff-should-we-keep-him-because-we're-trying-to-close-Gitmo-but-can't-because-it's-a-political-nightmare issue, but I think the REAL reason he wasn't captured can best be summed up in song.
Same answer for your Q4 below.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
3-the raid was conducted right next door to the Pakistani equivalent of West Point, how could the US team been able to operate for almost an hour without provoking some type of response from the pakistani military?
A comprehensive, detailed blow-by-blow of events has not been released, and it may never be released for national security/super-secret/only-Jack-Bauer-has-enough-clearance-to-know-all-the-deets reasons. So - in other words - we all have to swallow a big gulp of get-the-eff-over-it juice about knowing every single detail of what happened.
We don't really know EXACTLY what their involvement/response was, and there are conflicting reports, but there is no doubt in any IQ-above-room-temperature person's mind that they surely heard gunfire/saw things. But what they did in response has not been released in any great detail. I can certainly put up links to a variety of news sources, but it would only serve to fan the flames of the black-nike-wearing, kool-aid-sipping conspiracy theorist's cray-cray made-up fire. Google is your friend.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
4-why would the body, if he was indeed killed, possibly be tossed over board? This would practically guarantee the formation of conspiracy theories, when the US government could have simply declared he "was buried at an undisclosed location." That would have at least kept the conspiracists at bay, with the potential for determining the location at some point in the future, and confirming the body was who they claimed it to be.
a. Compliance with Muslim body disposal regulations (although it should be noted that there has been great conflicting opinion/interpretation in the last 24 hours about whether or not this is actually compliant). Why even try to be compliant? An issue for another thread.
b. "Buried in an undisclosed location" would attract just as many cray-crays as burial at sea. It's a lose-lose proposition no matter how/where they dispose of the body. If he were buried at an undisclosed location, we'd be having the exact same discussion, but substituting "buried in an undisclosed location" instead of "buried at sea."
c. Disposal of the body before it ever got even close to US soil was absolutely essential because (unfortunately) many Americans are completely old-school (as in medieval old school) irrational when it comes to "evil-doers." His body would've been confiscated in a mob riot and literally torn to shreds before being set on fire and peed upon by naked dancing rednecks - all while being televised on 24-hour national news. See my musical link above.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
5-how could the NSA and rest of the intelligence community not have discovered a huge mansion and compound built 5 years ago, next to a massive pakistani army base? Simply using google earth one can easily see how it was such an anomaly compared to the surrounding buildings.
They did, but again, more details are being released every day along with more questions about the Pakistani government's alleged complacency/involvement/harboring.
No one will ever know exactly what happened... until Bruckheimer gets his hands on the movie rights.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
I am not prone to buying into conspiracy theories simply because I am anti-government, but this whole story seems very full of holes.
Except for the part where you kind of are, and could've answered most (if not all) of your questions by spending 10 minutes on Google.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
And watching the garbage media doesn't help, they seem to be avoiding asking, much less answering, any of these questions. Very frustrating.
Nailed it. Except for the part where you totally glossed over the fact that this is ratings gold, and asking/trying to answer many questions is definitely in their best interest (or more accurately, in the interest of their ad revenues). Now, if you'd said:
"And watching the garbage media doesn't help because all of their stories are full of spin and political agendas."
you would've actually nailed it.
Last edited by Austinitegirl; 05-03-2011 at 01:49 PM..
Reason: fixed a link...
What does it say about our government if they release the photo? I find it disturbing that the government created so many citizens that doubt the claims of our own president.
You think the President is someone special who would never lie?
I am not saying he is but anyone can have their doubts.
I personally know the government in VERY shady. There were things I learned in the Military that I wish I had never known. But it was my job to know those things.
You can't believe everything the government claims it is doing and has done.
For the record, here in Massachusetts it was reported that the DNA came from one of his sisters who died. The DNA test was done at Mass General Hospital in Boston.
At the time of 9/11 there were a lot of OBL's FIFTY brothers and sisters living in the Boston area and they were allowed to fly out of the country right away. From all accounts, they were normal people and didn't even like their infamous brother.
Whether this sister was someone who had stayed behind in the US or whether she died some time ago, I don't know but on the tv it said "had died recently."
Ok wow, talk about different information getting out.
I read it was his half sister who died I think in 2007 and they used tissue from her brain.
Then I read the military did it.
So they killed him in Pakistan, got a sample and flew it back to Boston from Pakistan and did the test in just a couple of hours?
Sterpetron, You ask some reasonable questions and of course you'll get shouted at by folks who can only come up with: "You crazy conspiracy theorist!" They want to live in their little worlds where everything makes sense and live in constant fear and paranoia that some day that dream might be shattered. They don't like thinking about anything that makes them uncomfortable.
I was also very skeptical of the speed in which they desposed of the body, the only reason I could come up with was that they WANTED to generate conspiracy theories and let people get distracted by bickering over them.
Then you hear they had the opportunity to capture Bin Laden alive but never considered it. WTF? He's too hot to have in custody? Take the SOB in and pump him for all the info you can, the guy was a gold mine. Yeah the arab gutter mobs would scream and we'd have those who would demand he not be tortured or treated too severely, but that would only serve to alienate them from the rest of the public. No, I guess that wouldn't help Obama much so they couldn't have that. Or, maybe they didn't want him spilling his guts. I wonder what those computer disks will have on them. Here's a conspiracy theory for you, maybe some of it will be what they want it to be.
There are a ton of nagging holes in what you wrote. 1) They already had 1/2 the work done ahead of time. DNA matching is fast if you don't have to wait for the 30 jobs ahead of you.
Depends on how accurate one wants the test to be.
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2) If you capture Bin Laden then there will be people wondering why you didn't kill him and spout conspiracies about that. I think it's an ink blot test for preconceptions.
The value of captured intelligence from him would have been invaluable, for the same reasons KSM and others of his level were captured, and not killed.
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3) They planned the hit for months and you think that they didn't actually contact the local base just as they were hitting the compound? Sorry but you didn't put much thought into this one.
Looks like YOU are behind the news here, no one in pakistan was notified.
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4) You don't give the guy a shrine, if you are implying he isn't actually dead he will issue a video in a month or two blowing the thing wide open. Honestly, WTH are you thinking with this one?
Not sure if you are here to discuss rationally, but I'll REPEAT: the US can take him to the same undisclosed locations in eastern europe and elsewhere that are not really interested in applying the geneva conventions, and interrogate him there indefinitely.
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5) Hand waving.The garbage media hasn't addressed some of these issues nor have they investigated whether Sadam is "really" dead either.
Turn off the attitude or you'll be ignored. This thread is intentioned for adults, without the infantile nonsense.
It would have been interesting to know who, in the U.S. gov't. would have or could have been "implicated" by Bin Laden. He had friends there. The Bush family and Cheney were his friends. He probably could have disclosed a lot of interesting things, most of which the common American "sheeple" would never have had access to.
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