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The Arabs haven't the courage to fight openly for what they claim as theirs. They want Israel? They want to exterminate the jews? Let them come and take it. Just as they tried in 1947, 1967, and 1973.
The Palestinians could have had a state -- their first -- in 1947 as part of the UN mandate. They could have had it again at Camp David. The Israelis agreed and the UN (in the first instance) and the US (in the second) stood ready to serve as guarantors. But no. They wanted more. They wanted to occupy the country which the jews had built out of nothing -- NOTHING -- and to be given something which they have not earned. Not by birthright, not by effort, not by civilizing themselves.
So a group of Western people ignorant of history and hungry for jewish blood think Israel should be eradicated for daring to exist, with its democratic government, its long list of Nobel Prize winners, its contributions to medicine, science, computer design, desalinization, and a host of other scientific and intellectual breakthroughs and innovations, and handed over to a pack of revenge-sickened fanatics and suicide bombers (remember Sirhan Sirhan? the Munich Olympics? And these?):
So what? Let them howl. The truth is elsewhere -- such as the FACT that the Arab countries have killed more Palestinians than the Israelis ever have. As in:
Give Israel to the terrorists? Oh sure. Come and get it.
Camp David was thirty years after modern Israel had been stripped from the Palestinian people, and given to the Jewish people.
I have a problem with this thread, and some of the posters in it. Seems like if you say anything negatively about the Jewish people, and/or Israel, that suddenly you're a Jew basher.
I have no personal problem with the Jews. I'd probably take a country if the United Nations was going to give me one as well.
But the simple truth of the matter is that the United Nations, pushed by the United States and other western European countries annexed Palestine, and gave it to the Jewish people. The main reason was they felt bad about the holocaust, and didn't want European Jews to be killed like that again.
The post to which I quoted above is part of the problem. "If they want it back, they can come and take it".
Its like telling American Indians that if they didn't like the European and US invasions they they should just take it back. Frankly this is looking at matters that you are always in the right.
Palestine should be given their own country, I'd even say they should be given ALL of Jerusalem, because frankly its not Israels, and it would go a long way to righting a past wrong to this ethnic group.
Their actions since have been terrible, but what are you supposed to do when your lands, country, and everything that you are was stripped away from you? No excuses for violence, but I understand why it got started.
Again, I'm not a "Jew hater", I'm simply looking at the history of the matter and making my opinion known. If that doesn't set well with some posters, you can kiss my rebel ass.
Why is it our job to listen to nonsense from paid propagandists?
Love the nonsensical talking points, none of which are rational or fact-based.
More lies, the PA controls its own resources, the water from the sea of galilee is split, as is the jordan river. But keep going, as I assume you're paid by the word...
When did jews EVER commit violence against the germans? But the arab muslims have been using mindless terrorism against israel for almost 100 years.
You mean you know what the word "logic" means? Probably not.
The arabs in lebanon and gaza were left alone, and responded with rocket fire. Notice the paid propagandist trying to obfuscate by mentioning how the IDF weapons are from the US, trying to get americans to feel sympathy for the violent arab muslims who have maintained and stoked this war for 60 years.
Hey sweetie, how come you don't mention that the arabs' weapons are iranian-provided?
More psychotic rambling nonsense trying to excuse away mindless mass murder. In the mind of the lunatic, since my neighbor built his shed 2 feet over my property line, I can fire RPGs into his kitchen
What "outside"? people? There was no nation there, and no nation that was officially represented at the UN.
Notice how the fascist muslim defenders attack the UN when it doesn't defend their imperialism/violence, but use the UNGA rulings against Israel like a bludgeon when it suits them.
Of course the arab muslims used and continue to use war and violence - is there any other method by which they operate?
You see, when the US or the West uses war to achieve goals, it is a crime, unacceptable - but when the arab muslims use violence, it is justifiable and excusable since they are the Eternal Victims - at least according to the mentally unstable and jew-haters, take your pick.
I'd love to debunk every one sentence from this Rush/Beck inspired illogical rant
But....... there's this old Indian proverb. You can hold a dog's tail all night to make it straight, but it's not gonna work, it curls as soon as you release it
Camp David was thirty years after modern Israel had been stripped from the Palestinian people, and given to the Jewish people.
I have a problem with this thread, and some of the posters in it. Seems like if you say anything negatively about the Jewish people, and/or Israel, that suddenly you're a Jew basher.
I have no personal problem with the Jews. I'd probably take a country if the United Nations was going to give me one as well.
But the simple truth of the matter is that the United Nations, pushed by the United States and other western European countries annexed Palestine, and gave it to the Jewish people. The main reason was they felt bad about the holocaust, and didn't want European Jews to be killed like that again.
The post to which I quoted above is part of the problem. "If they want it back, they can come and take it".
Its like telling American Indians that if they didn't like the European and US invasions they they should just take it back. Frankly this is looking at matters that you are always in the right.
Palestine should be given their own country, I'd even say they should be given ALL of Jerusalem, because frankly its not Israels, and it would go a long way to righting a past wrong to this ethnic group.
Their actions since have been terrible, but what are you supposed to do when your lands, country, and everything that you are was stripped away from you? No excuses for violence, but I understand why it got started.
Again, I'm not a "Jew hater", I'm simply looking at the history of the matter and making my opinion known. If that doesn't set well with some posters, you can kiss my rebel ass.
Agreed, amigo. It's sad
It almost seems like people have given the Jews a blank cheque to do whatever they want, just coz they were persecuted in the holocaust. That doesn't give them the right to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinian people
What bothers me is that most of these people are devout christians and they are influenced by their pastor's Sunday preaching about Israel and the Israelites, and evangelical nuts, and more preaching from the likes of Beck, O'Reilly and Rush (all of them paid by the Jewish lobby). I'm a fairly devout catholic myself and I often get chided for not supporting the "only civilized country in the Middle East". Their term, verbatim
Do you think Palestinians should have their own independent country or they should stay under Israeli control? This poll is anonymous.
Actually, if the historic accounts are correct, Palestine was "sold" to the Zionists. But it was Palestinian territory.
Think of it like this: One day, the Spanish (or other country, it matters not which) decide that YOUR HOUSE is actually their land, according to their religious book and their interpretations of that book. So, they convince Obama to sell YOUR HOUSE to them. Now you're out.
"Thou shalt not covet" is one of the 10 commandments. To covet means to want something that is someone else's. Therefore, Israel, the way it was obtained, was a transgression of this commandment.
So, we're back to an argument based on "Jews wrote a book that says God gave Jews the land"?
Sorry, not a very convincing argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
I think the whole middle east is a mess. I don't know how you fix the rest of the mess, but the Palestinians deserve their own land, it was taken from them. The Palestinians did nothing to deserve that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
What, other than your personal bias, makes it any less relevant than the claim God gave land to the Jews?
It almost seems like people have given the Jews a blank cheque to do whatever they want, just coz they were persecuted in the holocaust. That doesn't give them the right to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinian people
What bothers me is that most of these people are devout christians and they are influenced by their pastor's Sunday preaching about Israel and the Israelites, and evangelical nuts, and more preaching from the likes of Beck, O'Reilly and Rush (all of them paid by the Jewish lobby). I'm a fairly devout catholic myself and I often get chided for not supporting the "only civilized country in the Middle East". Their term, verbatim
Shows just how much they know about the middle east. You should remind those people that its better to be thought of a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Most evangelical Christians support the Jewish people being in this region, and occupying Jerusalem because its part of the end days prophecy. They want the world to come to an end, and as many of them see it the first step towards that is the Jews living in Israel.
Don't forget that Palestinians do their suicide attacks because they don't have weapon!! They don't have money!! The only way they can fight Jews is suicide bomb attacks and throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers. Israel has a constant and huge financial and military support from USA, Palestinians have nothing.
Including brains. If they had, they'd have gotten their own country in 1947. Or in 1996. But they'd rather hide behind women and children or use them for cowardly bombings. Yasser Arafat made fools of the palestinians and enriched himself at their expense, stashing away the money from the Saudis and others in his Swiss bank accounts...
Camp David was thirty years after modern Israel had been stripped from the Palestinian people, and given to the Jewish people.
I have a problem with this thread, and some of the posters in it. Seems like if you say anything negatively about the Jewish people, and/or Israel, that suddenly you're a Jew basher.
I have no personal problem with the Jews. I'd probably take a country if the United Nations was going to give me one as well.
But the simple truth of the matter is that the United Nations, pushed by the United States and other western European countries annexed Palestine, and gave it to the Jewish people. The main reason was they felt bad about the holocaust, and didn't want European Jews to be killed like that again.
The post to which I quoted above is part of the problem. "If they want it back, they can come and take it".
Its like telling American Indians that if they didn't like the European and US invasions they they should just take it back. Frankly this is looking at matters that you are always in the right.
Palestine should be given their own country, I'd even say they should be given ALL of Jerusalem, because frankly its not Israels, and it would go a long way to righting a past wrong to this ethnic group.
Their actions since have been terrible, but what are you supposed to do when your lands, country, and everything that you are was stripped away from you? No excuses for violence, but I understand why it got started.
Again, I'm not a "Jew hater", I'm simply looking at the history of the matter and making my opinion known. If that doesn't set well with some posters, you can kiss my rebel ass.
And you can dig up Yasser Arafat and kiss his. He's the real reason the Pals don't have a homeland, and you know it.
For your information, the "Palestinians" already had a country. Today, we call it Jordan. Unfortunately, when they tried to take it back, the Jordanians massacred them.
Israel was created by the UN to offer a homeland to the remnants of the Holocaust. Where else were those people to go? Germany? Poland? Russia? Or their ancient homeland, which they people centuries before Mohammed had robbed his first caravan?
Those of you raised on a steady diet of palestinian pity have no idea in the world of what the jews suffered under the Nazis. And now you want to call THEM interlopers for having created a democracy in the desert and built a modern civilized society? You're worse than ignorant. You're actively supporting those who want nothing less than a second holocaust. Ask Hamas.
And you can dig up Yasser Arafat and kiss his. He's the real reason the Pals don't have a homeland, and you know it.
For your information, the "Palestinians" already had a country. Today, we call it Jordan. Unfortunately, when they tried to take it back, the Jordanians massacred them.
Israel was created by the UN to offer a homeland to the remnants of the Holocaust. Where else were those people to go? Germany? Poland? Russia? Or their ancient homeland, which they people centuries before Mohammed had robbed his first caravan?
Those of you raised on a steady diet of palestinian pity have no idea in the world of what the jews suffered under the Nazis. And now you want to call THEM interlopers for having created a democracy in the desert and built a modern civilized society? You're worse than ignorant. You're actively supporting those who want nothing less than a second holocaust. Ask Hamas.
It almost seems like people have given the Jews a blank cheque to do whatever they want, just coz they were persecuted in the holocaust. That doesn't give them the right to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinian people
A breathtaking display of truly shocking ignorance.
Tell you what: present evidence of the gas ovens in which palestinians are incinerated. And the railcars carrying away families to concentration camps. And the SIX MILLION corpses, the bundles of hair, the rolls of human skin, the gold jewelry, teeth and other warehouses of personal and family goods stolen from helpless people at gunpoint.
Provide evidence of a jewish plan to exterminate the palestinians, references to a "final solution" to the "palestinian problem", or ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING the strategy of mass murder and genocide engaged in by the Nazis to rid the world of Jews. But you won't do any of this, because you can't. You're just blowing hot air out of your ass.
Israel has bent over backwards to accomodate the palestinians. It has returned the Sinai to Egypt. It gave the pals Gaza and what did it get in return? An artillery base for Hamas. Surrounded by enemies, Israel has estalbished a working democracy and offers citizenship, voting rights, religous freedom, and legilslative representation to the Arabs living in Israel. Care to name how many arab countries even HAVE elections? And how many jews are allowed to live htere, vote there, hold office there? ZERO.
The Jordanians killed more palestinians in the Black September uprising than Israel has throughout its history.
Seriously, posts such as yours are bereft of any semblance of intelligence or even the barest knowledge of history. Why do you engage in such lies?
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