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Honestly, I get where you're coming from, and I tried to do my best to read that note, but I just won't read anything laced with that much profanity. I'll read it if it's cleaned up and there is no reason to not do so. One can get a point across without using the F word every other word. Sorry.
I try not to curse too....HOWEVER...when one is about to attempt suicide I think social graces and watching one's language would be the last thing on one's mind.
The boy was ANGRY....desperate and hurting...crying for help.
I think your excuse....IMHO...for not reading the note is LAME.... and you are looking for an easy way out.
IF you cannot endure the terror of reading the "F" word than you'd never survive this boy's torment/torture....and you would not be here.
I was alive then....however blacks were not demonized by churches, society and our government....so your argument fails abysmally.
Also blacks can easily find each other and organize. Because of society it's a different story for gays....I just cannot understand how posters don't see that. OR is it you don't want to see it!
Some of you tell us to stay in the closet and shut up...so who do we talk to....how do we meet...how to we organize....how do we help each other.
It's just been in the last decade or so that LGBT folks have begun to organize...form support groups and try to help. Surely if you are as old as me you don't DARE compare with blacks...how gays were to cope back in that generation....there was NOTHING but the very beginnings of organization with Harvey Milk...who was killed by a heterosexual.....before he could help his peers!
When I grew up in the 60's and 70's I thought I was the only gay dude except for Paul Lynde and Tiny Tim!
So because gays are demonized by churches that means that they should resort to suicide? And I disagree blacks were demonized by the government and society hence the Jim Crow laws, slavery, and not being able to even go into certain establishments, vote, and so on. At least gays have access to equal education, can learn to read, write, and so on. For the most part your homosexuality is not on full display(like it is for other racial groups with their skin tones). I could go on and on, but I'll leave it alone. My point is that homosexuals are not the first group to be discriminated against, demonized, or treated unfairly. No matter how you frame it, or try to say that homosexuals somehow have it worst so suicide is okay--I just won't buy or agree. There are several groups that have experienced genocide, oppression, discrimination, and demonization by the "hands" of society. They did not kill themselves.
And I refuse to believe that it's entirely society at fault for gay suicides. Struggling with sexuality, and struggling with coming out to parents, and struggling with society's perception of you is ONE thing, committing suicide and blaming society because of it is another. One is completely understandable, the other(the latter) is not a normal response no matter how much you try to justify it as such.
The truth of the matter is that not everyone will like homosexuality. What you imply(and others) is that once society likes it and says it's "normal" that more homosexuals will "come out" and feel better about their sexuality. This is probably VERY true, however it speaks of a utopic society where everyone loves everyone and this is not the society were are in. Banking or even trying to get most heterosexuals to a feel certain way about homosexuality by using articles such as these, or about gay bullying, will NOT change the minds of those who are strongly convinced that homosexuality is wrong(which happens to be a good amount of the population).
So the notion that "society" must change and accept homosexuality to prevent this from happening is sort of well--I don't know not realistic? Even on this thread you've seen several comments that just still feel the way they feel--no matter how horrific this story was. So, blaming society for the suicide, will not "change" the way SOME of society thinks. There has to be another way to promote acceptance, and understanding within the homosexual community, rather than trying to impose that heterosexuals "accept it" in order to make homosexuals coming out "feel better". One's identity, and acceptance in who they are, should not be based on how society feels about them. If that was the case, MILLIONS of minority groups, and people are lost causes.
I understand, from Hammertime, that these sort of situations are happening not necessarily because of bullying, but because of how homosexuality is portrayed by society causing homosexuals to feel not normal, rejected, and fearful of their family. But how can we force society to accept homosexuality if there are those that are strongly against and just can't accept it as "normal" or "natural"? There must be a way for homosexuals to at least "get past" depending on society to say they are normal and acceptable beings in order for them to come out and feel good about who they are. Because as you can see, and with your experience as a homosexual person, there are those with strong convictions that simply will never believe what you believe about your sexuality. And yes this is especially of the church. These skills are taught in LGBT groups. There just needs to be a way for more homosexual teens to feel comfortable joining these groups.
I personally don't think homosexuals should shut up, or stay in the closet. And I do believe that there needs to be an outlet, and more support for those struggling with "coming out". But where I can see "issue" is with depending on the rest of society to feel the way you do about it, when there are those that simply will never feel that way. I also still feel strongly that suicide is a drastic decision and that it is not a NORMAL reaction and that is goes beyond sexuality, and speaks to "mental health" issues.
Last edited by sunkisses87; 07-11-2011 at 10:42 PM..
As another poster replied already, this could have been written by any number of picked on children. I was picked on in elementry and middle school. Why? I am a "half breed". Kids would call me that, along with other names. I was never brown enough to be considered Mexican and never white enough to be considered Caucasian. I had to endure things being thrown at me on the school bus, being forced to fight my way home, and other not so nice things. Things got better as I "grew into my body" and gained weight and height in high school. The thing is I never once considered suicide as a resolution to my problems back then. I fought through the tough times and made a better life for myself(even as a young man). Sad that this person chose this, it really is........
What you're missing is that the government and many religions do not demonize you and pass laws denying you equality....that's the difference.
I'm sorry you had to endure that crap....it's not right. BUT you could talk to others about it...your pastor...your school.....especially your parents.
This boy had NOONE to talk to. The girl he did confide in outed him....against his will...before he was mentally ready and emotionally mature.
I for one never "grew"...I'm still 5'5" and 125 so I had to fight all the time but was fast and in shape and never lost a fight(a few ended with both of us just exhausted though).
So what about kids who cannot fight....don't get bigger...tougher....are we to just throw them under the bus?????
It is sad.........but try to see that not everyone is as strong as we are...or grows bigger...or knows how to or even can defend themselves.
As I said earlier it's easy to judge this kid from behind a computer screen....but NONE of us has walked in his shoes.....so we really don't know what it was like....each of us can ONLY relate our personal stories .
I was skinny as a rail in middle school and early high school. A strong wind could have blown me away. Couldn't have asked for an easier target than me. You know what? I was never bullied. I was never harrassed. It's because I didn't act vulnerable. I didn't invite scrutiny. And if for some odd reason someone was out of line, I spoke up, instead of cowering. I had personal fortitude....almost like I didn't even know I was a twig that could be easily pushed around.
By the end of 10th grade, I was 6'2" 185lbs. Not exacty a small guy anymore. I'm pretty sure there were a few people walking the halls that were glad they didn't bully me. I would have exacted revenge and smacked them around.
The point? It's all about who you are and how you carry yourself. Every bully on the planet knows that a person who fights back is the person that won't get bullied. It's human nature.
I stand by my original statements: Scientists should study the link between homosexuality and the lack of personal and psychological fortitude. I'm convinced there is a connection.
It must make you feel like a big man to place the blame at the people being bullied. And it's certainly no shock that you are convinced of something so unsupported by anything but your own ignorance on the subject. You seem like the type of person to just make sh*t up as they go and then claim to be correct. A fascinating case study, really.
What you're missing is that the government and many religions do not demonize you and pass laws denying you equality....that's the difference.
It was worse for me because half of my family(the ones who are supposed to back you) disowned my dad and me(his father was a KKK Grand Wizard in Waco, Tx). I didn't need the government to demonize me, I had my family for that.
I'm sorry you had to endure that crap....it's not right. BUT you could talk to others about it...your pastor...your school.....especially your parents.
Yes, my parents helped, but they could not be with me at school, on the street, on the bus, etcc, where the attacks happened.
This boy had NOONE to talk to. The girl he did confide in outed him....against his will...before he was mentally ready and emotionally mature.
That is sad, still not a reason to attempt this. I learned the hard way, that there is always another tomorrrow, the sun will rise and the sun will set. Things will change for the better is what I believed and they eventually did....
I for one never "grew"...I'm still 5'5" and 125 so I had to fight all the time but was fast and in shape and never lost a fight(a few ended with both of us just exhausted though).
Good for you and that made me laugh
So what about kids who cannot fight....don't get bigger...tougher....are we to just throw them under the bus?????
Not under the bus, but we all have to fight our own fights at some point, right? Kids have been picked on since the dawn of time. This is nothing new. Guess, I am of the mind that one has to stand up on their own two feet and battle it out.
It is sad.........but try to see that not everyone is as strong as we are...or grows bigger...or knows how to or even can defend themselves.
I understand and sympathize with him.
As I said earlier it's easy to judge this kid from behind a computer screen....but NONE of us has walked in his shoes.....so we really don't know what it was like....each of us can ONLY relate our personal stories .
cant handle life..or being bullied..well the simple solution for a person with a mental problem...suicide..or we can take a pill (like paxil) to help us DEAL with life
sorry I feel NOTHING for a sap that took his/her own life...NOTHING is so bad that you should take your own life...you think being bullied as a teen is bad..wait till you have to answer to a Boss..or you have the STRESS of being a parent, having a job, etc
its like when the military started(and luckily stopped) the basic training "Stess cards"...sorry if you cant handle the stress of basic trainging, what are you going to do when REAL bulletts are flying over your head in a combat zone
Oh look, another person who believes in projection rather than reality.
The OP is heart-wrenching, but he's one of millions of gay teens. He was outed against his own free-will, yes, but I believe that those who are considering coming out of the closet during the formative years (high school) are playing Russian Roulette. Why take a chance now and subject yourself to something that you don't even know if you can handle? And then possibly kill yourself over it? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Either you're strong enough to handle the stress of being gay in high school, or you're not. If it's questionable, then the better solution is to stay in the closet until after high school. As I said before...society sucks sometimes and its not ideal....but suicide should never be the remedy.
Your many posts on the subject of homosexuality contradict with the idea being presented here: that you actually give a crap about the safety and well-being of gays, let alone gay teens. Seriously, is anyone buying this?
This is how I feel too. It is not a normal reaction to kill yourself because of mistreatment and intolerance. As I've said in another post, in history there were other minority groups that were oppressed--just as much--and if not more than homosexuals and they did not kill themselves based on it. People who commit suicide typically have deep underlining issues that I believe go beyond their sexuality, race, gender, and so on.
It's sad when it happens, and I don't believe it's selfish(I know several people do) BUT I just can't "buy" the assertion that society is causing homosexuals to kill themselves.
Sorry, but who in the hell taught you the ridiculous claim that other minorities never committed suicide??
I suspect many of you can't "buy" it because to do so might actually make you feel guilty about something you once did. The easiest way to avoid empathy (and therefore responsibility) is to deny anything ever happened.
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OR is it you don't want to see it!
