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Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Its a bit of a poorly worded question. Of course there is a "political Agenda". They are a group of people who have opinions, like any other group of people, on political change and reform. Who does NOT have a political agenda these days?
I can agree that the question may be poorly worded. I also understand your reasoning and I agree it absolutely does make sense. I think others may disagree with you though and I would like to hear their comments also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
The problem is not with them having a political agenda, but with how people paint that fact when they point out that they have a political agenda.
"Agenda" has become a kind of dirty word recently. It is a word that when people use it and then say NOTHING else, it is almost meant as an insult to the target.
Point well taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
So what people do is they come on to forums such as this, declare that homosexuals have an "agenda", say nothing else and then leave. Their hope is that saying they have an agenda somehow imparts an image of darkness, sordidness, underhand dealings and worse to the group in question.
Get it straight in your head. People form groups based on common interests and/or themes and often those groups want to see some kind of political reform. This is common. I have an agenda, you have an agenda, we all have agendas especially in the political sphere. Stop acting like having an "agenda" is some dirty perversion people should be ashamed about.
The question you have to ask yourself is not whether group X has an "agenda". Of course they do. The question is to ask WHAT those agendas are... and if implemented would they cause an overall change for good or for bad. If good then support them. If bad then resist them and explain exactly why you disagree with their aims.
Okay, again, very fair statements.
To summarize I believe you are saying:
It is self evident that individuals and like minded groups of individuals have agendas. When they use the political process to affect change in line with their agendas this is a political agenda.
A political agenda in and of itself is neither good nor bad but must be judged upon it's merits to make that determination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
But stop this canard of going around calling about the "gay political agenda" without spelling out what that means, simply because you hope that saying those three words suddenly makes gay people "wrong" somehow. It does not, it just makes the person who says them look under educated on the issues, and more than a little biased and phobic.
Agenda is not the dirty word people want it to be.
When you say "stop this canard" are you speaking in general terms or do you mean this thread specifically?
If you are operating under the assumption that this thread is an attempt to make gay people appear "wrong" for having an agenda, that's fair and I respect your right to your opinion. I do ask however for you to suspend judgement for the moment and watch the direction this thread takes.
I hope we can lean away from assuming peoples motives and acknowledge we all have a bias.
I think we could have an interesting dialogue and you have much to contribute if we can keep things civil and have tolerance for others opinions, beliefs and viewpoints.
Sure there's an agenda. But then again isn't every civil rights movement an agenda ?
Different groups have bubbled up to the top over history as they fight for "rights" they believe are due to them.
I consider the gay rights movement no different then the women's rights movement.
Several decades ago, the homosexual agenda was us to have tolerance of their special lifestyle. Then it became one of acceptance of abnormal behavior as normal. Then a right to adopt children. Then a right to civil union, a contractual right to share property. Now they are campaigning for marriage rights the same as heterosexuals. In other words the agenda, which few want to challenge, is to make the abnormal normal. This is a political agenda.
When you say "stop this canard" are you speaking in general terms or do you mean this thread specifically?
Generally. Nothing specific to you and it is a failure in my own prose if I gave you that impression. Clarification to follow...
The reaction to you that caused you to feel motivated to start this thread was likely because people are sick of hearing the word "agenda" used in this fashion and maybe it leads them to jump on you when you other wise do not deserve to be. Alas when 100 people come on and use the word "agenda" as if it is a dirty word, person 101 might actually use it correctly but will suffer the back lash of people becoming tired of the other 100.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 07-15-2011 at 10:20 AM..
Reason: No calling out other members
Several decades ago, the homosexual agenda was us to have tolerance of their special lifestyle. Then it became one of acceptance of abnormal behavior as normal. Then a right to adopt children. Then a right to civil union, a contractual right to share property. Now they are campaigning for marriage rights the same as heterosexuals. In other words the agenda, which few want to challenge, is to make the abnormal normal. This is a political agenda.
OMG!!! They want to adopt kids!!! Those savages!!! How dare they!!!
Shirley, it is to turn them homosexual. Beacuse as we all know, only straight parents raise straight kids, and gay parents raise gay kids....
Several decades ago, the homosexual agenda was us to have tolerance of their special lifestyle. Then it became one of acceptance of abnormal behavior as normal. Then a right to adopt children. Then a right to civil union, a contractual right to share property. Now they are campaigning for marriage rights the same as heterosexuals. In other words the agenda, which few want to challenge, is to make the abnormal normal. This is a political agenda.
The issue there is that people too freely define what is "normal" and "abnormal" to suit their own ends. The words are too subjective and have become defined and redefined so often that their usefulness has been diluted into nothing.
Quite simply there is nothing "abnormal" about homosexual behavior given its prevalence both in numbers and temporally in history throughout our species. Your head exploding for no reason would be abnormal. It is something that hardly, if ever, happens. Homosexuality is so common that using the word "abnormal" to describe it says literally nothing.
Not to mention the fact that not only is calling it abnormal wrong it is ALSO irrelevant. Showing someones point to be wrong OR irrelevant is usually enough. Calling homosexuality "abnormal" is both. The problem is that it is often a moral issue and no one has ever adumbrated an argument to my knowledge that "normal" is synonymous to "moral" and "abnormal" equates directly to "immoral". so even if homosexuality WAS "abnormal" it says literally nothing about how we should treat it.
What the scaremongers who imagine this "dark agenda" of homosexuals like to paint it as is that gay people want to turn us all gay, or their children gay, and they want to spread homosexuality into those people who are not homosexuals. They do not. Their only "agenda" for the majority is to be able to dedicate their lives to a partner, and to be able to adopt children, like any other straight couple can, with all the same rights of tax, inheritence, next of kin, medical proxy and more than "normal" married couples can also obtain without much issue.
As I said above no one has yet adumbrated to me any reasons why such an agenda is wrong, why homosexuality is wrong or immoral, what is wrong with homosexual sex, or what is wrong with two people of the same sex adopting children. Not once. Ever.
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Ofcourse!
