Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've shown repeatedly why a flat tax is not fair. Why is a progressive one not?
Quote:
Now, the current fair tax is not even set up right either. It needs to be redeveloped into the Cap, Cut, and Balance debt plan!
A debt plan != a tax program.
Quote:
Medicare needs to be phased out,
In order to show you how extreme this idea is, allow me to do something equal, but from the left point of view. And then tell me which of these two people actually believe they want.
"Let's Nationalize hospitals."
Quote:
Social Security needs to be privatized or phased out,
"let's nationalize the oil industry."
Quote:
welfare needs to be restructured. (treated as a loan which must be repaid over time and drastic lifestyle changes to qualify).
Curious, but that's kind of backwards. The point of welfare is to help people get back on their feet, not put them in even more crushing loan repayment. A lot of people end up on welfare because of student loans, medical bills, legal bills, etc. Making them take on another loan is just irresponsible.
Quote:
Fair tax with massive government cuts is a good thing. Not only can it get the good ol USA back on track, but could get Americans back on track and force the so called "parasites" into taking responsibility for themselves.
We could also mandate better wages, stricter labor laws (maybe two or three weeks guaranteed time off), close tax loop holes, increase taxes, cut defense spending, develop single-payer health, and a series of other great ideas people are too stupid to actually realize are good for them.
FLAT TAX......a real one......no write offs and everyone pays 10 percent. Standard deduction........gone. And yeah, I would also impose a 10% federal sales tax on all retail sales.
You really need to go read the last two pages or so. It's a horrible idea that simply does not work.
FLAT TAX......a real one......no write offs and everyone pays 10 percent. Standard deduction........gone. And yeah, I would also impose a 10% federal sales tax on all retail sales.
why retail taxed, I was already taxed once on my income? Now you want more!
Also, only new retail items should be taxed. I had a car that had 4 or 5 different owners and the gov collected tax on that thing many times. thats no good either.
You are aware that we don't tax wealth, right? If we did, union employees and retirees would be totally screwed. Many of them have pensions worth million$.
Quote:
But wealth and net worth are important factors.
Then be prepared to have union workers with their overly generous pensions start coughing up BIG bucks.
Quote:
Flat taxes don't even work in paper, why the **** do you think they would work in practice?
I've not seen any evidence that they don't work. Just tax everyone's income at a flat rate. States do it all the time, and they still exist.
You really need to go read the last two pages or so. It's a horrible idea that simply does not work.
It would work if part of the idea was to gut all of the CRAP that this corrupt government blew money on. Baby Momma Bennies for Illegals and things like that.
why retail taxed, I was already taxed once on my income? Now you want more!
Also, only new retail items should be taxed. I had a car that had 4 or 5 different owners and the gov collected tax on that thing many times. thats no good either.
FairTax with reform for the win
Sorry, simply put......we need to raise money.....I do not think that 10% fed tax would be enough.
I've shown repeatedly why a flat tax is not fair. Why is a progressive one not?
A debt plan != a tax program.
In order to show you how extreme this idea is, allow me to do something equal, but from the left point of view. And then tell me which of these two people actually believe they want.
"Let's Nationalize hospitals."
"let's nationalize the oil industry."
Curious, but that's kind of backwards. The point of welfare is to help people get back on their feet, not put them in even more crushing loan repayment. A lot of people end up on welfare because of student loans, medical bills, legal bills, etc. Making them take on another loan is just irresponsible.
We could also mandate better wages, stricter labor laws (maybe two or three weeks guaranteed time off), close tax loop holes, increase taxes, cut defense spending, develop single-payer health, and a series of other great ideas people are too stupid to actually realize are good for them.
yes, its extreme, very extreme. Progressive is better than flat.
As far as privatizing/phasing out, Im looking for choice. Its my money, I want to invest in my own retirement and medical. Not fund others knowing that it will not be around when I need it.
My welfare reform is a bit backwards. I repaid my debts, why cant others. I once had to make a living for a while at 9.50 an hour. Ill be the first to admit I was to proud to get help from the government. I sold my car to get out of the loan and drove a beater for a while. I had no cable, dirt cheap cell phone and used dial up internet. I sacrificed. Student loans, medical bills, legal bills, etc should not be the governments concern. If you are not willing to make the massive sacrifices, then your welfare checks should be a loan. If you truly did get hit hard, and have no sacrifices, there should be limited help and in such a way that you will WANT to get off welfare and do your own thing.
Our minimum wage is fine. Its important to educate people that minimum wage is NOT a livable wage. Its a ENTRY level wage for those entering the workforce or those who choose to not apply themselves. There are many issues that are driving low wages, and that is a whole topic in itself.
We also need to stop aiding so many foreign countries and governments. Yes, my heart goes out to others in need, but we are in some need right here!
Now, I couldnt agree more with your statement "other great ideas people are too stupid to actually realize are good for them". Many Americans have gotten stupid. We raised and taught them that they dont have to worry, because the big government will take care of them.
I see it all the time, people have no clue. People dont get involved with politics anymore. Im 31, and the vast majority of people around my age that I work with cant even tell you the difference between a democrat and republican.
These are the same people who vote by what the see on tv, or watch on the local news. Nobody knows how to research and make informed decisions.
The bottom 80 pay some 45% of the debt, with 17% of the wealth.
But wealth and net worth are important factors. The focus on income taxes has the sole purpose of making the wealthy look like they have a larger tax burden than they really do. The pay marginally higher income tax rates, but because cost doesn't scale with income, they should. Of all taxes levied, the wealthy pay under their fair share, which the numbers very clearly show.
You mean all American's should pay for the greed of a few thousand people? Good plan, Herr.
Flat taxes don't even work in paper, why the **** do you think they would work in practice?[/quote]
Your gibberish is perhaps the ultimate apples (income tax) and oranges (wealth) argument ever to assembled from otherwise intelligent words. Congratulations on your epic ludicrosity.
Sorry, simply put......we need to raise money.....I do not think that 10% fed tax would be enough.
Simply put, raising more money is EXACTLY the WRONG thing to do. For every add'l $1 Congress and the administration gets it's hands on, it will spend an add'l $1 plus. So cut taxes, and cut spending - hack massive hunks of all entitlement programs
If your argument is that we should tax people fairly, wealth is one of the best measurements. I'm not going to repeat myself for the seventh time as to why a flat tax does not work, and why taxing poor people isn't effective either.
Quote:
If we did, union employees and retirees would be totally screwed. Many of them have pensions worth million$.
Of course, it's unions. It's always unions. Or teachers. or public sector.
Show me these unfortold millions they have.
Quote:
Then be prepared to have union workers with their overly generous pensions start coughing up BIG bucks.
I've not seen any evidence that they don't work. Just tax everyone's income at a flat rate. States do it all the time, and they still exist.
They tax consumption at a low flat rate that still disadvantages those without wealth because COST DOES NOT SCALE. And more so, like the federal government, states collect taxes from a variety of sources, not just sales tax.
Unless you have an argument as to how we tax people with a flat rate that somehow combats the undeniable and unanswered FACT that costs do not scale, I'll will call you a flabby-headed moron for every response you post after this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul
It would work if part of the idea was to gut all of the CRAP that this corrupt government blew money on. Baby Momma Bennies for Illegals and things like that.
Baby Momma Bennies? What the hell is that? What are you talking about illegals? Make some coherent statement, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhemi
yes, its extreme, very extreme. Progressive is better than flat.
As far as privatizing/phasing out, Im looking for choice. Its my money, I want to invest in my own retirement and medical. Not fund others knowing that it will not be around when I need it.
You can still do so, no one is stopping you from investing your money.
Quote:
My welfare reform is a bit backwards. I repaid my debts, why cant others.
Because they are already in debt, one of the reasons people are in such dire shape in the first place! Using debt to pay off debt doesn't make any sense.
Quote:
I once had to make a living for a while at 9.50 an hour. Ill be the first to admit I was to proud to get help from the government. I sold my car to get out of the loan and drove a beater for a while.
New cars, while expensive up front, can be cheaper in the long run, which is a more fiscally responsible choice. One of the reasons people are in debt, they look to make cheap choices now which could cost more in the long run. Moving on.
Quote:
I had no cable, dirt cheap cell phone and used dial up internet. I sacrificed. Student loans, medical bills, legal bills, etc should not be the governments concern. If you are not willing to make the massive sacrifices, then your welfare checks should be a loan. If you truly did get hit hard, and have no
sacrifices, there should be limited help and in such a way that you will WANT to get off welfare and do your own thing.
Do you honestly believe that people want to be poor and on welfare? Or that they should expect a $200,000 medical bill for cancer? There is a very limited sector of people that are perpetually on welfare because employment opportunities don't exist for them. They work two jobs and still can't make payments. They can't afford post-secondary education to get a better job, so we condemn them to eternal poverty, and somehow blame them for a system that doesn't work to get them off in the first place. Making 22,000 a year, with 20% interest on your loans because you have bad credit (because you can't make payments), and offering to pay that off with more loans is fiscally irresponsible. You can't keep paying debt with debt.
Quote:
Our minimum wage is fine.
This is the most ignorant thing I've seen you say. It hasn't kept up with inflation. It doesn't provide any kind of wage. 15,080 a year with zero vacation time is not in any way a means of supporting oneself.
Quote:
Its important to educate people that minimum wage is NOT a livable wage. Its a ENTRY level wage for those entering the workforce or those who choose to not apply themselves.
This is counter-productive. You can't expect people to find better work, when they are only qualified for a select few positions, and those positions pay minimum wage. They can't afford to school themselves, or don't have the time because they are working 60 hours a week. So instead of doing something sensible, like raising the minimum wage to livable standards to bring people out of poverty (which is what the minimum wage laws are designed to do), we say "**** 'em, they don't apply themselves."
Many people are where they are not because of doing something or not doing something, but because this system is designed to keep them there. For the third time now, social mobility does not exist in any real sense.
Quote:
There are many issues that are driving low wages, and that is a whole topic in itself.
There is a serious problem with the minimum wage if it doesn't keep up with inflation.
Quote:
We also need to stop aiding so many foreign countries and governments. Yes, my heart goes out to others in need, but we are in some need right here!
We receive financial aid in our times of need as well. Whenever a crisis strikes, nations provide millions in aid. We respond in kind, and like it is the duty of the wealthy in the United States to help the less fortunate (it's "fortunate" for a reason), it's the responsibility of wealth nations to help those in need as well.
Quote:
Now, I couldnt agree more with your statement "other great ideas people are too stupid to actually realize are good for them". Many Americans have gotten stupid. We raised and taught them that they dont have to worry, because the big government will take care of them.
The government is there to protect society at large. The government can't do its job as long as people are too stupid to see this.
Quote:
I see it all the time, people have no clue. People dont get involved with politics anymore. Im 31, and the vast majority of people around my age that I work with cant even tell you the difference between a democrat and republican.
These are the same people who vote by what the see on tv, or watch on the local news. Nobody knows how to research and make informed decisions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
