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Perhaps a simple question: "Can I see your numbers on wealth distribution since 2001?" is too much for you to handle, that you went off parroting again.
The top 1% has a LOWER share of wealth now than they had at the peak in 1995. What's so hard to understand about that?
Simplify the tax system, have everyone pay the same percentage of taxes. If the tax rate was, say, 10%, then a person making 1k a year would pay $100 in taxes, a person making 1,000,000 a year would pay $100k in taxes. Eliminate all loopholes and deductions, everyone pay what they owe. Eliminate the B.S.
Let's do a national sales tax....(not a Value Added Tax or VAT)...that way...if you want something, you pay tax....it's a fair way. If you don't want to pay tax, don't buy!
No INCOME tax at all...aside from the FICA that's taken from your check, everything else is YOURS to do with as you wish. No income tax form! No reciepts and loopholes! You only pay tax on what you purchase! No lobbyist to try and create "tax breaks" for anyone.
The economy would soar!
That makes sense to me!
As far as the tax code today...quit trying to make "rich" folks pay more. If you want to pay more taxes...send your money to the gov't....they'll take it!
Even better. Then we don't need the dependency-enabling social welfare spending programs.
I've seen nothing at all that demolishes the concept of a flat tax, only political rhetoric from you because you don't like the concept.
Yes, such strong political rhetoric like "costs don't scale."
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
As do I. Flat tax. Everyone pays their FAIR share.
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Originally Posted by NJBest
I'll be honest, I jumped in the middle of this thread without reading the previous 20 pages to point something out in response to a specific post (which was valid in respect to that post).
I'm not going to read through 20 pages of posts now. If you want to briefly sum up your reasoning, feel free to.
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Originally Posted by monkeywrenching
eliminate all taxes, repeal the 16th Amendment, make a 15% sales tax and make it apply to everyone coming into the country, not just citizens.
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Originally Posted by gramirez2012
Simplify the tax system, have everyone pay the same percentage of taxes. If the tax rate was, say, 10%, then a person making 1k a year would pay $100 in taxes, a person making 1,000,000 a year would pay $100k in taxes. Eliminate all loopholes and deductions, everyone pay what they owe. Eliminate the B.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea
Let's do a national sales tax....(not a Value Added Tax or VAT)...that way...if you want something, you pay tax....it's a fair way. If you don't want to pay tax, don't buy!
No INCOME tax at all...aside from the FICA that's taken from your check, everything else is YOURS to do with as you wish. No income tax form! No reciepts and loopholes! You only pay tax on what you purchase! No lobbyist to try and create "tax breaks" for anyone.
The economy would soar!
That makes sense to me!
As far as the tax code today...quit trying to make "rich" folks pay more. If you want to pay more taxes...send your money to the gov't....they'll take it!
Flat-taxes look pretty for the first four minutes and fifty-nine seconds you think about it. When minute five hits, you realize in a moment of clarity--"Oh, this won't work."
To someone making $20,000, taxed at 10%, you have $2,000 gone from his bank account. That leaves $18,000 to buy a car, buy a home, buy food, support two kids, and carry on with life in such a way as he sees fit.
To someone making 100,000, taxed at 10%, that's $10,000 gone, half what our original man is making, but now at this point, this wealthier person has $80,000 to buy a car, buy a house, buy food, support two kids, and carry on with life in such a way as he sees fit.
The problem is that both these people have the exact same cost. Cost of living is $35,000 to maintain a home, raise two kids, and own a car.
Under a flat-tax system, the poor is much more disadvantaged than the rich. Why? Because they both have the same cost, but a wildly disparaged income. It gets worse the higher you get. Flat-taxes greatly benefit the wealthy (who would pay even fewer taxes than they do now) while punishing the lower and middle class, by making them pay more than they already do--which is significant. There is a reason proponents of flat-taxes are primarily Conservative, almost exclusively. Flat taxes are regressive--they give money to the wealthy while taking it from the poor.
The FairTax plan isn't any better. It's a high flat-tax (found to be about 30%), with a montly prebate to cover poverty. So, Essentially, each year, a single person would get about $16,000 in prebate checks, and is taxed roughly 30% on anything made over that.
30%.
Meanwhile, people who are already wealthy get tax-cuts to 30%, and aren't paying any income taxes, any Capital gains taxes, any Dividends taxes, and no payroll taxes either.
What does that mean? Same thing as before. Because costs don't scale, they are both paying the same 30% on the same goods, but the poor will be much more severely hit while the wealthy walk off with even more money in their pocket.
The only way to fix that problem is to scale costs. Bread costs 1% of their income for everyone. Houses cost 40% of their income for everyone. That would be ludicrous.
We don't tax so high that everyone ends up making only $20,000 a year, but those that make the most money, end up paying the most in taxes. It's a fair system because the value of the dollar decreases as you make more.
And here's a breakdown--probably in better detail--as to why what I'm saying isn't "political rhetoric."
Oh, and by the way, this is only from one perspective. A flat-tax, having benefit the rich, would mean a radical drop in total revenue brought in by the government--about half. Conservatives love to ***** about over-spending, so when you're in debt, you don't go from a full-time to part-time job. Our nation is in debt, why would you cut taxes in half, especially because cutting taxes on the wealthy doesn't create jobs?* How quickly will they ***** when we can't afford our own military?
*{If you need this explained to you, raise your hand please}
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Obama and the Demsdo say so. When they say they want to tax "the rich," they are NOT talking about only the top 400, so whatever point you're trying to make about the top 400 is irrelevant in terms of what Obama and the Dems are pushing for. In fact, Obama and the Dems are aiming on hitting those who are trying to move UP from the middle class. Those people would fall squarely within the $250k income baseline. Obama and the Dems want to slow and kill upward social mobility.
The upward social mobility? Are you kidding? The wealth gap is increasing, not decreasing in size. Upward social mobility for the bottom 80% of the population is going down. This is the splitting of the middle-class they talk of. Meanwhile, the top 20 and top 10 percent of the population are shuffling around, many falling, some raising.
The wealthy are getting wealthy by walking and crushing the backs of the poor.
Upward social mobility. For ****s sake, they're already "upper-middle class," how high do you expect them to go before they actually killing poor people before getting there?
They want to cut Medicaid?
Oh.
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Originally Posted by le roi
Is that flat across all income sources, or does it give special preference to income acquired through capital gains and dividends?
Some people consider income gained from capital gains and dividends to be "double taxation", but I do not.
Especially considering that dividends and capital gains are the primary source of income not taxed as personal income, for the wealthy.
Again, an incredible failure on your part to see that people don't always end where they are because of their own successes or failures. Chance can play an incredible role, not to mention factors well out of the control of the working man.
Someone making very little should not be expected to shoulder the burden of society. You can't place the expenses of a great nation on the backs of the majority of the people, as the majority of the people (80% here) control less than 20% of the wealth of the country. Should they be taxed? Sure, but you must tax those making much more, much more.
The bottom twenty percent, those controlling less than a single percentage of our entire wealth, should have no expectation of taxation.
THE BOTTOM 20%? WE ARE TALKING 50% OF THE PEOPLE DO NOT PAY TAXES AFTER ALL DEDUCTIONS they pay 0 $s!!
There are two distinc issues at hand in this country.... how to raise money and how to spend it..
Most of what I read on here are nothing but sound bytes from radio heads and politicians who say stuff that sounds good..
There is nothing UnAmerican about a progressive tax structure with tax BRACKETS...
We can have a SMALL government that is funded through a progressive tax...
If your rich in this country you have distinct advantages over anyone else... when looking at the numbers In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%
I would eliminate federal income taxes for anyone making 100k or under.. with this I would also remove ALL deductions.. I would then replace some of that loss with a national sales tax.. I am guessing somewhere around 5%... I think this would do two things.. we could eliminate the need for the majority of the population to file a tax return and we could drastically reduce the IRS.. A small national sales tax would Mean EVERYONE is paying something... No more working under the table, criminals and illegals alike will be paying something... And for those who make 100k vs those who make 30k the ones making 100k will spend more and therefore pay more sales tax..
I would then have a graduated tax structure above 100k starting at a low of 10% to 250k 15% to 500k 20% to one million.. and a consistant increases to as high as 60% on income over 10 million..
I would lower our coperate tax rate to below the lowest in the world..
My main beef is with people worth more than a billion. They are not job creators, but leeches off society and they are the ones that corrupt government. I am talking about people like Soros, Bill Gates, Al Gore, Warren Buffet, the Rothschilds, the Kochs, the Waltons, etc. Any rich person who has ties to the Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberger, and the Trilateral Commission needs to be taxed to hell because those people pay little, if any, taxes because they are the ones that lobby Congress to write tax laws that they themselves could be exempt from. Which is why you have Buffet begging for higher taxes for people in his income category because he knows the left is ignorant of how the tax code works for the mega rich.
Liberals, and for any conservatives that don't understand, there are two tax codes in the U.S. One for the millionaires and billionaires (like Warren Buffet and Soros), and one for the rest of us. The left needs to grow up and stop whining about taxes because the household making $250,000 CAN'T AFFORD a damn private jet
those people you have a beef with, give millions of dollars away. why give it to the government who will waste most of it! just ask OPHRA she reather give her money away then give it to the government!
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