Christianity and War by Laurence M. Vance (wage, wisdom, Obama)

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by northstar22

With all due respect, I think you're twisting that verse. There is never a time, for example, to rape or murder, to steal, to cheat, or to commit other immoral acts.

Not miss representing it at all, as there are times we are to prevent them.

It's like this. If some one comes at me, I will shoot first and ask questions later. I'm not going to stand there and go, wait, I'm a Christian...I can't!...no I can and I will do what is best.

There are those that would say, I'm immoral for protecting myself, for protecting my family and above all, for standing up for what I believe in and not sulking off into a corner to hide.

PS: I'm getting just a bit tired of this.

[Ellis Bell]

"The morality of going to war in the first place, as well as the number of dead and wounded Iraqis and Afghans, is of absolutely no concern to most American Christians." Christianity and War by Laurence M. Vance

I have an idea. Let's give to those folks all our land so they will stop their war. Let's give to them whatever it is they want so they will stop killing Americans. We should have Israel lay down as well. We walked out of slavery, maybe we all should just walk back into it and stop all this suffering.

That's the Christian thing to do, right. I know that's what most folks would like us all to believe, the Christian, thou shalt not kill, it is what it is right?

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by actonbell

Not miss representing it at all, as there are times we are to prevent them.

It's like this. If some one comes at me, I will shoot first and ask questions later. I'm not going to stand there and go, wait, I'm a Christian...I can't!...no I can and I will do what is best.

There are those that would say, I'm immoral for protecting myself, for protecting my family and above all, for standing up for what I believe in and not sulking off into a corner to hide.

PS: I'm getting just a bit tired of this.

No offense intended, but presuming that you're in fact a "Christian", then seriously, what do you think being a "Christian" is all about? Does it actually guide your life with things like the 10 Commandments ("Thou shalt not kill", etc.), and living according to Christ's teachings ("By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another")?

Or is it simply about "preaching" and repeating the right "dogma" (aka, living like the Pharisees: “But do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.”)? Isn't this what Vance (a self-admitted "Bible-believing Christian and theological and cultural conservative") is talking about.... the disconnect between what Christianity says and what few actually do?

[Visvaldis]

Christians work hard to cultivate the worst of human traits and call them virtues: hatred, prejudice, and and they never are at a loss for a justification to bomb other people.
The primary problem is that those who call themselves christians are just phonies that use the name from christ. Their actions are the exact opposite of the teachings of Jesus.

[odanny]

"I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

-Gandhi

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by djacques

To borrow a quote from the late Joseph Sobran, when you have this much defense, is it all really defense? Luckily that doesn't have to remain a rhetorical question; you answer it later in this post.



They have never minded talking to us in the past and they won't in the future. They won't be dictated to, however, nor should they. Iranians are almost a mirror image of Americans in that sense; pathetically proud and independent. But our "squaring off" against them is our own choice.



In our time, third world border wars are mainly a result of colonialism and the divide-and-rule strategy pursued by the West on its way out. The bloodiest results of this policy have been seen in Rwanda, Palestine and Iraq/Kuwait. Colonialism can hardly be described as non-proactive.



So what's the military for: keeping any innocent people from dying anywhere on the globe, or defending the nation? (The early Christians didn't even think defending the nation was a good enough reason.)



It has not been the "norm" for several hundred years.



What that has to do with justifying war now is unclear.



I suppose that's the fundamental premise about which we disagree.

Is it AADD?

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by ted08721

Momonkey:
“They are far less clear about how they would handle the adult business of defending the nation”.

response:
Only a brainwashed war monger would think we are defending our nation by all the military actions that we have continuously taken part in or supported with money and weapons.


Momonkey:
“Another attribute common to peacenicks is that they are excellent self-adulating moralists but poor students of history. The hundreds of millions lost in third world border wars are almost always the personal victims of a lack of US pro-active foreign policy.”

Response:
WHAT!!! It is our pro-active foreign policy that has been responsible for hundreds of thousands of people being wounded, murdered and displaced south of our border throughout Latin America; that does not include all the murdering we do overseas.
It is not a good thing to be on the receiving end of our country’s foreign policy.
To kill one person is murder, to kill a thousand it is called foreign policy.

"Only a brainwashed war monger would think we are defending our nation by all the military actions that we have continuously taken part in or supported with money and weapons."


"response:"?

Response to what?




"To kill one person is murder, to kill a thousand it is called foreign policy."


Lots of people die if we act, and lots of people die if we do not act.

Is that not true?

[mhouse2001]

Originally Posted by mateo45

And thanks for the nice example of Christ's love & forgiveness (not!....which is precisely the sort of hypocrisy Vance is talking about).

Exactly! S/He exquisitely provided an example of what was described.

Seems to me that religion and government are more intertwined than we have been led to believe. It's as if both are being manipulated for a unified purpose. Has this Christian nation ever risen up and told its government how un-Christian it is? No. Why is that when it's so obvious? We preach love and pat each other on the back on Sunday, and kill our neighbors every other day of the week.

[janelle144]

Our country started with a war plus it was those Christian nuts like the abolitionists who wanted to free the slaves and there was a war over that. Were those necessary wars or not?

I think the guy needs to talk more about when war is unavoidable and not just bashing Christians about the whole thing. Guess he wanted our country to become German after the Nazis took over.

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

Exactly! S/He exquisitely provided an example of what was described.

Seems to me that religion and government are more intertwined than we have been led to believe. It's as if both are being manipulated for a unified purpose. Has this Christian nation ever risen up and told its government how un-Christian it is? No. Why is that when it's so obvious? We preach love and pat each other on the back on Sunday, and kill our neighbors every other day of the week.

I wish this post wasn't true, but it is. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Christian that wants this nation to abide by truly Christian principles, rather than the twisted, self-serving brand of "Christianity" pushed by the Republicans.

There is NOTHING more corrupt than church married to state, or state intertwined with church. The Dark Ages proved it -- witch burnings, execution of "heretics," inquisitions, tortures, wars, crusades and other disgusting evils all resulted from the church getting involved in politics, and vice versa. The good that is the Christian faith became massively perverted into an unspeakable evil. I am a Christian but I STRONGLY support STRICT separation of church and state. It's the only way to keep both from becoming corrupted.