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How much punishment should a woman suffer for having an abortion? She should receive only as much as the man that got her pregnant.
IMHO - As I have stated before, if a woman does not own her body then she is not a free person. She is someone's slave. The slaveholder may be her husband, lover or the society at large. Who owns her and her reproduction does not matter. What does matter is that she is something’s property. That is unacceptable.
In most of these arguments the thing women are being punished for is unauthorized sexual activity. A woman is only supposed to have sex with her husband or father’s approval. She is not supposed to have sex because a rapist forced her to. She is supposed to be willing to die before she allows a rape. In the world of these males a female having unauthorized sex is a property crime against the male owners. Like I said, the female is considered property and therefore a slave.
The woman decides weather to have an abortion or not. The only time someone else can make t4h decision is when the woman is mentally or physically (in a coma for instance) incompetent.
As far as an abortion being considered a homicide, then it is, like so many other killings, a justifiable homicide. IMHO it is far easier to justify an abortion than the bombing of civilians. To kill an armed enemy in a gunfight is one thing. To kill civilians by dropping bombs on them from 40,000 ft or flying airliners into buildings is just slaughter and completely without any honor or justification.
NOTE: I being a man; I have no say-so whether a woman can have an abortion or not-------they get pregnant, not us.
That stated: I do have a major problem with abortion if used as a form of birth control.
That brings up another point. What if a woman gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby but the father of the child does? Who decides?
Now flip that scenario; if the woman gets pregnant and wants the baby but the father doesn't, who decides?
I am against abortion, but feel in situations of rape or if the mother is in a life-threatening situation that it should be an option. I certainly don't envy the mother's situation as I am sure 99% of those that get abortions didn't just wake up one day and get one.
As far as the woman's "right" to have an abortion, well, what about the defenseless child's "right"? Do I have the "right" to end someone or some things life because they angered me or put me in an inconvenient situation?
How much punishment should a woman suffer for having an abortion? She should receive only as much as the man that got her pregnant.
IMHO - As I have stated before, if a woman does not own her body then she is not a free person. She is someone's slave. The slaveholder may be her husband, lover or the society at large. Who owns her and her reproduction does not matter. What does matter is that she is something’s property. That is unacceptable.
In most of these arguments the thing women are being punished for is unauthorized sexual activity. A woman is only supposed to have sex with her husband or father’s approval. She is not supposed to have sex because a rapist forced her to. She is supposed to be willing to die before she allows a rape. In the world of these males a female having unauthorized sex is a property crime against the male owners. Like I said, the female is considered property and therefore a slave.
The woman decides weather to have an abortion or not. The only time someone else can make t4h decision is when the woman is mentally or physically (in a coma for instance) incompetent.
As far as an abortion being considered a homicide, then it is, like so many other killings, a justifiable homicide. IMHO it is far easier to justify an abortion than the bombing of civilians. To kill an armed enemy in a gunfight is one thing. To kill civilians by dropping bombs on them from 40,000 ft or flying airliners into buildings is just slaughter and completely without any honor or justification.
You can justify an innocent, defenseless baby's murder but not the "murders" of those that are able to take care of themselves and get protection from aggressors? I agree, dropping bombs on civilians is murder. So is terminating a healthy fetus that has no form of defense.
As far as the woman's "right" to have an abortion, well, what about the defenseless child's "right"? Do I have the "right" to end someone or some things life because they angered me or put me in an inconvenient situation?
Children do not have certain rights according to our government. They can't vote, drink, etc. They get those rights when they turn 18 or emancipated - before that, their "rights" are infringed by their parents
Yes, you do have the right to not have a child that would not only be inconvenient, but irresponsible. Personally, I'd rather a dollar of my tax dollars go to some woman's abortion, then thousands going towards the healthcare costs of said child since the mother was a teenager and has to use all forms of welfare in order to provide anything.
Children of parents who hate them generally turn out "bad". Many unwanted children go to foster homes and adoption homes. Many of the foster kids jump from home to home until they are dumped on the street at 18.
And in a way, you can destroy and kill things that annoy you - bugs for instance!
All-in-all, if abortion gets banned, we're going to have an even more abused system of welfare along with even more overcrowding of unwanted kids in foster/adoption facilities.
You can justify an innocent, defenseless baby's murder but not the "murders" of those that are able to take care of themselves and get protection from aggressors? I agree, dropping bombs on civilians is murder. So is terminating a healthy fetus that has no form of defense.
Your opinion.
Would you also like to go after those women who miscarry?
During the period when most abortions are performed, this "baby" is nothing more than a barely formed blod clot. At the point that this baby is fully formed and can survive outside the womb, even with assistance, abortion should never be an option.
Those of us who rely on science rather than dogma to determine our thought processes don't necessarily agree with your assessment of this conglomeration of unformed tissue as a sensient being.
If in your perfect world, abortions are illegal--you have then succeeded in shoving your religious beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. Thankfully in this country, the Constitution is still the rule of law. The First Amendment guarantees me not only freedom of religion, but freedom from religion as well.
We try to find rational reasons for our decisions, thinking that we, over all the animals and apart from everything that we have ever experienced, are not a part of nature. It is human hubris. But it remains that we are a part of nature and what we can change to better our lot, we should. The world does not need more people at the very time in which more women are choosing not to reproduce. That is not a coincidence. That is healthy and good.
Woman who abort should be rewarded.
Woman who reproduce too much should be penalized.
Part of "changing our lot" for the better is to have children and love them.
Selfishness is not the answer. Nor is the extinction of our species.
Children do not have certain rights according to our government. They can't vote, drink, etc. They get those rights when they turn 18 or emancipated - before that, their "rights" are infringed by their parents
They have the right to actually live, no? Apples and oranges.
Yes, you do have the right to not have a child that would not only be inconvenient, but irresponsible. Personally, I'd rather a dollar of my tax dollars go to some woman's abortion, then thousands going towards the healthcare costs of said child since the mother was a teenager and has to use all forms of welfare in order to provide anything.
Irresponsible? Like getting pregnant when you can't afford it or don't want to get pregnant? I don't want any of my tax dollars to pay for a woman's abortion and I think it should never be publicly funded unless the abortion was to save the mothers life.
Children of parents who hate them generally turn out "bad". Many unwanted children go to foster homes and adoption homes. Many of the foster kids jump from home to home until they are dumped on the street at 18.
Still gives that child a chance to become someone who is productive in society. I know foster homes aren't great and will say that those that are anti-abortion need to also use their energies into making our adoptions and foster care programs much better than they are now.
And in a way, you can destroy and kill things that annoy you - bugs for instance!
Are you comparing bugs to babies?
All-in-all, if abortion gets banned, we're going to have an even more abused system of welfare along with even more overcrowding of unwanted kids in foster/adoption facilities.
There is overcrowding at homeless shelters. Should we kill them too?
Look, it's a very tough issue that needs to be looked at from all angles. I used to be pro-choice but now I am not because it's taking away the life of an innocent defenseless human.
Would you also like to go after those women who miscarry?
No. Miscarriages are accidental. Stupid question.
During the period when most abortions are performed, this "baby" is nothing more than a barely formed blod clot. At the point that this baby is fully formed and can survive outside the womb, even with assistance, abortion should never be an option.
Oh, just a blood clot. This is the weakest argument the pro-abortion people have. What the hell do you think that clot is going to turn into? It's the beginning stages of human development.
Those of us who rely on science rather than dogma to determine our thought processes don't necessarily agree with your assessment of this conglomeration of unformed tissue as a sensient being.
You rely on anything BUT science. That "clot" that you mentioned before is more than just a clot, it's the cells of the baby that will within a week after conception, attach itself to the womb. What science classes were you in? Unformed tissue? Give me a break.
If in your perfect world, abortions are illegal--you have then succeeded in shoving your religious beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. Thankfully in this country, the Constitution is still the rule of law. The First Amendment guarantees me not only freedom of religion, but freedom from religion as well.
Actually, in my perfect world, abortions wouldn't even be thought of but I digress. I didn't mention ONE thing about religion. Way to jump to false conclusions. There are those of us who aren't religious that still feel abortion is wrong. Oh, and the First Amendment doesn't guarantee you freedom FROM religion (so you're wrong AGAIN and tough crap if you see a Christmas tree lit up in a public place) but that's a topic for another thread.
You can choose to do whatever you want to do to your body. I'm all for it. I'm all for euthanasia as well because the person making the choice is only affecting him or herself. Abortion is different, it's the killing of a defenseless child who wasn't given the chance to live. A right to live which I also believe is in in the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
There certainly isn't anything that says I can choose to terminate a child because I just can't afford it or it would be a strain on me in the Constitution.
I find it curious that you didn't address the question in my other post regarding if one partner wants the child and the other doesn't. I am pretty sure I already know your answer, but would like to hear your rationale.
Charlie Manson was a child. He was also unwanted.
Hitler was, by some biographies, an unwanted child.
I shudder to think what kind of world your philosophy might bring about - Oh, we have already seen that.
I think the hope of the world lies in managability and that requires making decisions where we can. Manage resources, manage economies, manage households, manage our kids and the size of our households.
When societies have fewer people, every human life becomes precious. When societies become overpopulated, life becomes cheap.
I think there is a certain biological mechanism at work here, in our decisions on this issue. Our brains are still a part of nature. I see some of us locked into the old scenerio of our early fathers, as part of some small tribe, and wanting to reproduce to become powerful as a people.
Others of us look to the future and sense the outcome of all this breeding and wish to avert a future in which the individual becomes less and less significant and more replaceable.
We try to find rational reasons for our decisions, thinking that we, over all the animals and apart from everything that we have ever experienced, are not a part of nature. It is human hubris. But it remains that we are a part of nature and what we can change to better our lot, we should. The world does not need more people at the very time in which more women are choosing not to reproduce. That is not a coincidence. That is healthy and good.
Woman who abort should be rewarded.
Woman who reproduce too much should be penalized.
Women who abort should be rewarded? Interesting. Why? They aren't contributing anything to society other than selfishness, no?. It's their right and I support it, but be rewarded?
The women who have children are creating life that will grow up with a chance to contribute to society and make it better. I actually can see a point regarding too many children. I hate seeing a family with 8 kids and their parents have little to no money. Interesting indeed.
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the killer is charged with TWO counts of murder. That is the law. How do some of you explain this, if the baby is only a "parasite" in your eyes?
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