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Point to the words "Muslim", "Islam", or "Allah" in that document.
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This is what Hamas believes and what the "Palestinian" leadership has always believed. You cannot separate out "Palestinian" from Muslim. Most Palestinians are Muslims. That is what they base their claims to Israeli land on.
Wrong still again. They base it on the fact that they were there and were driven off the land at gunpoint to make room for Jewish immigrants.
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That's the only reason most Muslims find Israel objectionable. It certainly isn't any sort of glorious human rights crusade as universal principles and such ideals are largely foreign to Islam.
The Palestinian national movement per se does not have a religious character.
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The Hamas led government is deeply anti-Semitic and deeply Muslim. Do I really have to pull up a source for this argument?
That's one party, which won one election, in one half of the occupied territories, largely because they are seen as less corrupt than the other major party. Whether they will win elections in the future remains to be seen.
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Yeah everything would just peachy keen if we got rid of Israel.
This is a no-nonsense poll, folks. Israel-Palestine is a very repetitive topic and I'd like to know how we folks divide.
No matter how the power brokers use this situation to suit their ends, public perception outside the region always remains.
I miss the option of doing away with Israel as such and creating a unified, federal Palestine-Israel... In my view this is the only way to solve that settlement mess and make up for the unfair past.
I miss the option of doing away with Israel as such and creating a unified, federal Palestine-Israel... In my view this is the only way to solve that settlement mess and make up for the unfair past.
That is option 4 more or less, with no two state solution that is the only probable result. Support for it is already very high among Israeli Arabs and rising among Palestinians. Once it reaches a tipping point in that there are so many settlements that a 2 state solution is not viable Palestinians, as Olmert says, will likely push for citizenship and voting rights. That will be the point the situation turns into an unwinnable situation for opponents of such a plan, because it is not really possible for a Western Democracy to successfully stop a voting rights movement.
If we were equal in suborning and funding all those occupations and that of Palestine by Israel, I would express equal outrage. I have responsibilities for scrutinizing what my country does that I don't have in regard to any other country.
(The region of Kashmir is occupied by India and China as well as Pakistan. India occupies the largest share.)
We consent to everything that Turkey, China, Pakistan, India and Iraq do by doing nothing. We politely don't bring it up. We don't officially recognize the Armenian Holocaust as a genocide 100% for diplomatic reasons. Especially during the Cold War we felt we needed them to stay in NATO no matter what the cost and no matter what misdeeds had to be overlooked. We diligently remain silent and don't bring up any of Turkey's crimes. Israel isn't part of NATO. Turkey is. I think we should have a right to expect better from them than what we're seeing.
And one important difference between the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus and Israel: Cyprus has been an independent nation since 1960 and it still is an independent nation. Palestine has never really been an independent nation. It went from outside occupation and rule by Rome, then Arabs, then Turks, then the British. The British handed them the only sovereignty they've ever known by giving them only part of Palestine and giving the other part to the Jews -- the Brits had lied and promised the whole thing to both groups, so I suppose in their minds it was a fair compromise to half keep both promises. Rather than accepting this first-ever independence for even a second, they immediately attacked Israel ... and lost ... badly. So they called for the Arab nations to help and in rushed the combined might of the Arab Muslim world. When the dust cleared, the independent nation of Palestine was completely gone before it ever really got started. What parts Israel hadn't taken were swallowed up by Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
Israel is just one of four outside occupiers since the British left. And Israel is just the next group of many to take over control of Palestine. Palestine has never really been an independent country -- only a part of other nations and empires. The Palestinian question has far more to do with the fact that the current rulers of the land are not Muslim than it has to do with anything else. Re-establishment of the "Independent Nation of Palestine" is just a red herring since no such nation ever really existed. The Middle East Muslims are outraged because a non-Muslim group took one of their toys away from them -- one that they'd "rightfully stolen" centuries earlier from somebody else. They want their toy back!!
We consent to everything that Turkey, China, Pakistan, India and Iraq do by doing nothing. We politely don't bring it up. We don't officially recognize the Armenian Holocaust as a genocide 100% for diplomatic reasons. Especially during the Cold War we felt we needed them to stay in NATO no matter what the cost and no matter what misdeeds had to be overlooked. We diligently remain silent and don't bring up any of Turkey's crimes. Israel isn't part of NATO. Turkey is. I think we should have a right to expect better from them than what we're seeing.
And one important difference between the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus and Israel: Cyprus has been an independent nation since 1960 and it still is an independent nation. Palestine has never really been an independent nation. It went from outside occupation and rule by Rome, then Arabs, then Turks, then the British. The British handed them the only sovereignty they've ever known by giving them only part of Palestine and giving the other part to the Jews -- the Brits had lied and promised the whole thing to both groups, so I suppose in their minds it was a fair compromise to half keep both promises. Rather than accepting this first-ever independence for even a second, they immediately attacked Israel ... and lost ... badly. So they called for the Arab nations to help and in rushed the combined might of the Arab Muslim world. When the dust cleared, the independent nation of Palestine was completely gone before it ever really got started. What parts Israel hadn't taken were swallowed up by Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
The situation in Cyprus and the situation in Israel are entirely different.
To be fair Cyprus took independence as a consolation prize. Most of the early Cypriot leaders did not want independence they wanted Enosis with Greece, but Britain would not allow that. Turkey attacked and occupied northern Cyprus to prevent that from happening.
There is no original owner of the land down there, they all have stolen it from others who lived there before them, the early Jews stole it from others as well. They are even proud of it...
Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Palestinians do not loathe Israel, and they flee to Israel whenever they can because in the Palestinian Territories they are persecuted, tortured and murdered.
BTW Clark...I realize there are two sides to every story, and this is the other one:
Most of the world tends to agree that the prime jeopardy to peace in the region is the state of Israel itself
What an ignorant statement.
If Israel was wiped from the map and replaced with "Palestine" would these conflicts magically not have occurred?
-Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's
-Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
-Current Syrian crackdown on protestors, Hama massacre of 1982
-Lybian civil war
-Iranian violent crackdown on civil unrest
-Lebanon civil war, Muslims vs Christians
-Armenian genocide
-Yemeni civil war
-Algerian civil war
How many exactly was Israel responsible for? The only one in that list that Israel could remotely be associated with is the Lebanese civil war, since they helped one side against the other.
I really hate to extend an anti-semitic metaphor, but Jews have been blamed for ridiculous things in the past which were completely unrelated to them. Blood libel, the black death, control of the world etc. They were even blamed recently for strategically placing sharks off the coast of Egypt to repel tourists.
Anyway these people are living in a dark ages mentality and the existence of Israel as a Jewish country is only a convenient scapegoat for their own miserable failures.
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