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Old 09-09-2011, 09:29 PM
 
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Good news is that U.S. is not number 1. We are actually number 20 on the list of percentage of GDP as it relates to external debt.

The interesting thing is that the top 20 are mostly western European debt. So who owns most of the West's debt? What do they do when the countries are unable to pay, which is just around the corner?

News Headlines
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Good news is that U.S. is not number 1. We are actually number 20 on the list of percentage of GDP as it relates to external debt.

The interesting thing is that the top 20 are mostly western European debt. So who owns most of the West's debt? What do they do when the countries are unable to pay, which is just around the corner?

News Headlines
Well, some of the nations on that list, like Norway, have no net debt at all.

See there are a lot of different sorts of debt, and making a list that treats them all as equal doen't actually tell us anything.

Consider two people in a small village -Smith and Jones.

Smith has an income per year of $ 30 000. He has a mortgage of 100 000, running over 30 years, and pays 6 000 $ per year on it.

Jones has an income of 40 000 $. His combined debts are 80 000 $. He needs to pay 10 000 tomorrow, and another 12 000 per year.

Who is in trouble here?
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,448,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Good news is that U.S. is not number 1. We are actually number 20 on the list of percentage of GDP as it relates to external debt.

The interesting thing is that the top 20 are mostly western European debt. So who owns most of the West's debt? What do they do when the countries are unable to pay, which is just around the corner?

News Headlines
What is even more interesting is that all 19 nations that have a higher debt to GDP ratio than the US combined is still far less than the amount that the US is in debt.

Also, the information is based on 2009 data. Currently the US National Debt is $14.706 trillion and the US GDP is $14.916, which gives us a 98.6% Debt to GDP ratio. By the end of fiscal year 2012, we are likely to exceed 100%.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,448,604 times
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Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
Well, some of the nations on that list, like Norway, have no net debt at all.
Norway is also a socialist nation that has nationalized various private sector industries, like the oil industry.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Norway is also a socialist nation that has nationalized various private sector industries, like the oil industry.
That would be news to Halliburton, BP and all the oil companies that work in said industry. And says they consider Norway to be one of the best coutries to do business in.
Norway is not actually socialist. In socialist countries, the government owns all the businesses. Like Cuba, Belarus and North Korea. Norway has lower corporate taxes than the USA, and a ferociously competitive economy, even without the oil.

Oil wealth which is not spent, but has been saved up in a sovereign wealth fund for decades. And that efficient capitalist wealth-creation engine drives social programs.
Norway has universal health care, free university education, 5 weeks vacation, a year of maternity/paternity leave and a host of other social benefits. (None of which are funded from oil income) From the US point of view, this is pretty socialist.

It seems to be a uniquely American error to believe social benefits equals socialism. From the American viewpoint, social policies and capitalism become points on the same line, and more of one must necessarily mean less of the other.

To other countries, social benefits are political settings, socialism and capitalism are economic systems. You can in fact have the dials of both capitalism and social policies turned up high.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,448,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
That would be news to Halliburton, BP and all the oil companies that work in said industry. And says they consider Norway to be one of the best coutries to do business in.
Norway is not actually socialist. In socialist countries, the government owns all the businesses. Like Cuba, Belarus and North Korea. Norway has lower corporate taxes than the USA, and a ferociously competitive economy, even without the oil.

Oil wealth which is not spent, but has been saved up in a sovereign wealth fund for decades. And that efficient capitalist wealth-creation engine drives social programs.
Norway has universal health care, free university education, 5 weeks vacation, a year of maternity/paternity leave and a host of other social benefits. (None of which are funded from oil income) From the US point of view, this is pretty socialist.

It seems to be a uniquely American error to believe social benefits equals socialism. From the American viewpoint, social policies and capitalism become points on the same line, and more of one must necessarily mean less of the other.

To other countries, social benefits are political settings, socialism and capitalism are economic systems. You can in fact have the dials of both capitalism and social policies turned up high.
It may be news to you, but it certainly is not news to the oil industry. Mexico, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela also nationalized their oil industry. Norway's government is funded almost exclusively from their nationalized oil profits, and has been for decades.

The Norwegian Petroleum Directorate, a governmental specialist directorate and administrative body, was created in 1972 and reports directly to the Ministry of Petroleum and Energy.

Source:
http://www.npd.no/en/
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:18 AM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,822,038 times
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Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It may be news to you, but it certainly is not news to the oil industry. Mexico, Brazil, Saudia Arabia, and Venezula also nationalized their oil industry. Norway's government is funded almost exclusively from their nationalized oil profits, and has been for decades.
You seem to have a problem with your knowledge base. Seriously, I got relatives working in the oil industry in Stavanger. For Halliburton. And there are a vast number of commercial companies operating in the Norwegian oil industry.

Commercial companies in Norwegian oil industry


And no, the Norwegian government is not funded from oil income In fact, the oil income has been invested for many, many years.

Norways sovereign wealth fund

You need to read up on these things. The Petroleum Directorate does not produce oil. It handles licenses for oil production, safety regulations and licenses for exploratory drilling. Done by actual oil companies. For instance, the actual site you linked to summarizes their work thus:

" The NPD must perform four functions:
  • The NPD is to be an adviser to the MPE through its professional integrity and interdisciplinary expertise.
  • The NPD has a national responsibility for data from the Norwegian continental shelf. The NPD’s data, overview and analyses constitute a crucial factual basis on which the activities are founded.
  • The NPD shall be a driving force for realising the resource potential by emphasising long-term solutions, upside opportunities, economies of scale and joint operations, as well as ensuring that time-critical resources are not lost.
  • In cooperation with other authorities, the NPD is to ensure comprehensive follow-up of the petroleum activities.

The NPD sets frameworks, stipulates regulations and makes decisions in areas where it has been delegated authority.

The NPD is responsible for conducting metering audits and collecting fees from the petroleum industry. Together with the MPE, the NPD is responsible for the security of supplies.
In addition, the NPD contributes administrative competence, mapping of resources and petroleum data administration for the development aid programme “Oil for Development”"
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