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I'm a fair person, so I'll address this. I read my quote that you posted and it looks as though I was saying that it is possible that this young man was influenced to be sexually curious, confused because of his environment. I definitely think that and that was my point all along.
You then replied with this quote that talks about the biology of a fetus and presence of sexual organs at birth.
So, from my understanding you are saying that he developed a gender association as a female as a fetus, but was born with male reproductive traits?
There is one problem with that study. They end the summary abruptly by saying that social environment has no affect on gender identity. Do you all really agree with that? Our society has long relied on gender identities to create the relationship between men and women. That is just one example of how environment affects the way we view ourselves. So, how can that study say that that isn't true?
I only posted the Extract from the study. It's not the whole study. This is just one of many peer-reviewed articles and studies that support that gender identity is formed pre-natally and is not caused by the way a child is raised.
Yes, I agree that our environment affects the way we view ourselves, including gender roles in our society. But I think you are confusing gender roles with gender identity. Gender roles are something we learn from our environment. Gender identity appears to be something we are born with.
There is an example of a boy whose parents raised him as a girl in the 60's and 70's because of an accident during circumcision which destroyed his penis. The parents even went so far as to give him female hormone treatments because the specialist they saw was convinced that gender identity could be changed by the way the child was raised. The specialist was wrong and this has been supported by many studies since the 60's and 70's.
The boy always thought of himself as a boy despite all the efforts of the parents and specialist to raise him as a girl and convince him that he was a girl. That's because his gender and gender identity were masculine. His brain structure and funcioning was masculine. He was born that way.
If the child in the OP"s article was born transgender then he was born that way and no amount of trying to raise him as a boy will change that his brain structure is 'feminine' even if his outward sexual organs are not.
According to the mothers, the child had told his parents since age 3 that he was a girl. His mothers say they thought he was mistaken when they first heard him communicate this through sign language. (He was developmentally delayed and had speech problems).
They say that he has always insisted he was a girl.
They took him to a child psychiatrist when he was seven after he threatened to cut off his penis and he was diagnosed with GID.
The mothers have 2 older sons who are obviously masculine and have no issues with their gender identities as male. If the mothers were trying to raise their child as a girl just because they were lesbians, or if children raised by lesbians are confused about their gender identity as one poster claims, what about the 2 older sons?
It was the specialists who recommended blocking puberty with hormone treatment until the child is old enough to decide for himself. Not the mothers.
I know, huh? I've worked with a ton of foster kids over the years, and have yet to meet one who'd been abandoned by gay parents... usually they come from single mothers or straight couples, often with addiction problems, and many of whom didn't even want kids in the first place. At least the gay couples really WANT and PLAN for these children, seeing as they have to go through adoptions or surrogacy/IVF to get them.
Some gay parents may be fine but these two are treating an 11-year-old-child like a pet they can do irreversible hormonal experiments on.
What happens in 5 years when the child realizes it's neither boy or girl? Children are not toys, they're people. There's no going back for this kid. Later on when he realizes Mommy & Mommy were bat*****, he will have never developed the adult skeletal structure of a male. Too bad, so sad, eh?
I'm not knocking gays in general but these two particular chicks who happen to be gay are freaking insane and when they play doctor, they're playing Doctor Mengele.
I'm not a dude, LOL... and I'm talking about laws because of the clear connection between hating gays & proposing laws against their being able to marry and/or raise children. That's where these discussions always end up, right?
FYI, I wasn't talking about you specifically in that earlier quote - it was a general "you."
I don't really know where these discussions always end up. I saw the thread and read the article, had an opinion about it and posted. But, you were talking directly to me and mentioned how opinions were being made into law.
Hating gays? I'm not trying to be mean, but some of you all are taking this to higher levels. That's why I didn't understand all the accusations of being homophobic and stuff. People disagree with what is happening in this situation and it equates to hating gays?
I wonder what the odds are of a gay/lesbian couple having a transgender child when the child's sex is the same as the parents, versus the opposite of the parents.
Some gay parents may be fine but these two are treating an 11-year-old-child like a pet they can do irreversible hormonal experiments on.
That was one of my points: I've seen people treat kids like pets, literally. I know some people that I have seen do this and I wondered if that is what happened here. The people I have seen do such are not in the same situation (gender topic), but they mold their children with political or social ideas (race, social ideologies, Earth matters). Sometimes they have intellectual conversations with their children and the children are like eight years old or something.
That's why I wondered if that may have happened here. What happens when the kid asked them about their relationship? Is it possible that they explained it in a way that got the boy thinking about his own sexuality or identity? That's my point. How can we act like that is not a possibility. Is it preventable? No. We can't tell same-sex couples what to talk about with their children, but I think it is not natural when these things do happen. It is manipulative.
I wonder what the odds are of a gay/lesbian couple having a transgender child when the child's sex is the same as the parents, versus the opposite of the parents.
I think we should leave it up to the professionals and not everyone's opinion of doctors, parents, gays, straights...
You can not just roll up to a clinic and get a sex change in this country.. the process involves LOTS of therapy and psychological evaluations. GID is real...and it doesn't always exist in the preconcieved contexts of your male/female straight/gay mindframe.
what makes us male and female is not just phsyical but also mental...
It goes beyond little sally being a tomboy or billy being a little girly boy..
I know very masculine acting and looking men that have gone through this process and are now women 6'4 women..lol.. but in all reality.. it's not black and white.. everyone is trying to make it so to assert that they know what they're talking about and trying to make a complex issue simple so an opinion on it all can be made in their mind. it's ridiculous to judge gays, these parents, or anyone because you don't understand a valid real condition that affects MANY more people than you realize.
it's funny how everyone is a damn moral compass or expert on the matter...and quick to cast judgement on a whole group of people.. GID is a very terrible thing for someone to go through and the LAST thing it needs is pointing fingers and judgemental ignorant mouths with no idea what they're talking about. GID is approached on a case by case basis.. so again.. lets leave it up to professionals and loving parents who are atleast open minded enough to address the issue if it does in fact exist
Some gay parents may be fine but these two are treating an 11-year-old-child like a pet they can do irreversible hormonal experiments on.
What happens in 5 years when the child realizes it's neither boy or girl? Children are not toys, they're people. There's no going back for this kid. Later on when he realizes Mommy & Mommy were bat*****, he will have never developed the adult skeletal structure of a male. Too bad, so sad, eh?
I'm not knocking gays in general but these two particular chicks who happen to be gay are freaking insane and when they play doctor, they're playing Doctor Mengele.
Very good point. Gender switching should be limited to adults only. Done too soon could result in irreversible damage.
Approximately, most of these transexuals are male. They grow up in households that are dominated by women. Who's influencing these poor boys to change themselves??
Can you prove that you are not an alien who has beamed down from your mothership with a really flawed manual on Humans?
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