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Old 10-01-2011, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecypher5413 View Post
I don't know if reading something like this factored into the decision my DH's cousin made about relocating, but it certainly would worry the hell out of ME if I lived in Texas. (And, look! It's a FUNDING issue, not whether AGW is CAUSING it!)

"On paper, at least, Texas is well-prepared to meet the water needs of its rapidly expanding population — even when Mother Nature lays down a harsh and lengthy drought.

The price tag on the plan: $53 billion. State money allocated: $1.4 billion.

If there were funds, Texas would be able to build the dams, reservoirs, pipelines, wells and other infrastructure that would ideally avoid tight water-use restrictions imposed on residents, farmers and ranchers during times of drought while also guaranteeing there would be enough water for the state's rapidly growing population — even in 2060.

Instead, now, more than four years after the latest blueprint was published, deadlines have passed with some work barely begun, and many projects never started. Meanwhile, lakes are shrinking, rivers are drying up and temperatures are rising."

And then there's the ever-predicatable NIMBY syndrome:

"North of Houston, opposition from residents has stopped, for now, a reservoir meant to supply water to the city and its suburbs, where nearly a quarter of Texans live and the population is booming. Here, planners recommended 121 projects. Seven are in development, Hardin said."

Texas slow to fund, prepare for growing population's future water needs, despite rising costs | The Republic

Where's the money going to come from??? My mind does the math and doesn't feel comfortable with the answer.
The I-35 corridor from Houston up to DFW has exploded with growth in the past 5-10 years. Not much was done to expand water holding facilities.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Doesn't Texas have similar problems that Portugal and Spain do? Both are pretty dry countries aren't they?
Some parts here and in Spain as well do have occasional droughts, but as the peninsula is exposed to the Atlantic and surrounded by water, the winter usually brings a lot of rain, replenishing the reservoirs. Portugal in particular is quite a wet and green country, almost like Ireland, just warmer.

I have seen photos of parts of Texas that looked like the moon, hardly any vegetation, just rocks and dust
Here there are at least cork and olive trees in the dry regions...

By the way, we are having a heat wave in Europe at the moment, up to 90°F even in Central Europe, not bad for October... If you like heat, that is
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:18 PM
 
1,324 posts, read 1,198,607 times
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People seem to get by in MN and AZ . Do what they do . BTW , it costs much more to heat than to air condition .
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:23 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,938,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Some parts here and in Spain as well do have occasional droughts, but as the peninsula is exposed to the Atlantic and surrounded by water, the winter usually brings a lot of rain, replenishing the reservoirs. Portugal in particular is quite a wet and green country, almost like Ireland, just warmer.

I have seen photos of parts of Texas that looked like the moon, hardly any vegetation, just rocks and dust
Here there are at least cork and olive trees in the dry regions...
Ah. I thought Portugal was drier like Spain is, and the interior of Spain is pretty dry, especially so in the summer.

Well, remember Texas is not all dry. Roughly, the eastern half of Texas has your grasses, forests, and such, and the western half is just grasses and shrubby desert vegetation. In the UK too, there's the popular perception that Texas is all desert.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:27 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,938,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westwaswon View Post
People seem to get by in MN and AZ . Do what they do . BTW , it costs much more to heat than to air condition .
Well, much of AZ's water supply is fed by the Colorado River, which in turn is fed by the melting snowpack of the Rocky Mountains. As long as the snow is falling and it melts and the glaciers melt too, the water will keep running in AZ. Can't say the same for Texas though.

Does it cost more to heat? Interesting. But, I'm sure it depends on the electricity rate
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:28 PM
 
15,446 posts, read 21,357,456 times
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What is they say? For every action there is a always an opposed and equal reaction. Most of the water being used here on the Texas High Plains is through farm irrigation. About two years ago I sat (as an observer) in a meeting of local farmers and wind turbine people. One of the larger cotton farmers was heard to say he was to be paid over $90,000 a year in royalties for leasing his acreage to the proposed wind farm. His second comment was "to hell with cotton."

And too, there is intense political pressure (from both sides of the isle) to get rid of farm subsidies. As farming interests decline, the precious water table here will cease its decline. Not that it matters to this old timer who will be hiding out under a tombstone in a few years but my daughter may want to sell this old place to a turbine mechanic.

In today's climate of saving tax dollars and declining farm acreage, I would worry more about rising food prices than a decline in water tables.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Ah. I thought Portugal was drier like Spain is, and the interior of Spain is pretty dry, especially so in the summer.

Well, remember Texas is not all dry. Roughly, the eastern half of Texas has your grasses, forests, and such, and the western half is just grasses and shrubby desert vegetation. In the UK too, there's the popular perception that Texas is all desert.
Portugal is like a small version of California in a lot of ways...

Yes, the moon photos I remember of Texas were from the panhandle, not the east.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:51 PM
 
15,446 posts, read 21,357,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Portugal is like a small version of California in a lot of ways...

Yes, the moon photos I remember of Texas were from the panhandle, not the east.
Yes, the Texas Panhandle and high plains are much like the moon but we have a LOT more air, especially in the spring and fall.
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,219 posts, read 22,371,062 times
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There is a natural tipping point where long lasting droughts create deserts. The Sahara Desert was once a hot/temperate zone that looked a lot like Texas. When the Mediterranean winds shifted permanently, the Sahara heated up and the vegetation gradually died off. Without vegetation, soil and rock became sand, and the sand constantly shifts and moves, killing off vegetation as it goes. Everything just keeps getting hotter. In the end, it's all sand.

In some parts of the world, deserts were human caused. Domestic grazing animals all have their own requirements; cattle and horses eat sweet grasses and clip the grass off. Sheep will eat bitter browse, and pull sweet grass up by it's roots. Goats eat everything, and will climb up on shrubs and trees when all ground browse is gone.
By the time a culture can grow only goats, the land is so stripped off that only goats can survive, so only goats are raised, which speeds the process. Once land can't feed goats, it can't grow a damn thing.

All this is well known.

What is not so understood is the impact of cities and urban sprawl. Cities all heat up more that surrounding countryside, due to all the pavement and other heat soakers or heat reflectors. Same goes for acres of parking lots and roofs in suburban sprawl. All this stuff creates micro-climates, but how these hot spots act in the larger picture hasn't been studied for very long or very deeply.

For every area that heats up, there is another that is going to become colder. Earth works everything by convection- heat will always rise, pulling in cold, and either can reach a tipping point where heat or cold takes over.

It is not true that weathermen are less accurate in short term predictions than long term predictions. We have the technology and means to be very accurate in predicting a few months out, but all that technology becomes entangled hopelessly when applied to long-term predictions.

As yet, we have much less ability to forecast deep ocean bottom currents that move very cold water around, and little ability to measure the highest atmosphere air currents. When there is a big shift in either, the weather can change for years and years. We know more about the moon than the bottom of the oceans, and the oceans run the planet's weather.

Trying to say with certainty we know what's going to happen by stepping out and sticking a finger to the wind is idiotic. Very slow changes produce very fast changes, and none of us will live long enough to have personal pictures of the slow stuff.

It's also idiotic to deny that the most populous mammal species on the planet has nothing to do with weather change. Humans are the only species that occupy everywhere on Earth- all corners, all climate zones, all oceans, all geography, and humans modify nature wherever we are to meet our needs. The more concentrated we are, the more intensely we modify.

Only dogs are able to go wherever we go, and dogs depend on us as much as we depend on them. This is also unique.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Between Seattle and Portland
1,266 posts, read 3,223,823 times
Reputation: 1526
Thanks, banjomike, for a very interesting take on this subject. I, too, have been following stories about desertification and drought in the Southwest and Texas for a couple of years now because I have a friend who retired in New Mexico. She has been hit hard by the drought in her area but is not considering becoming a "climate refugee" like my DH's cousin.

This was very intriguing to me and should interest Texas residents:

"In 1992, Rhodesian wildlife biologist Allan Savory came to a startling conclusion. Most experts on desertification blame overpopulation, overstocking with livestock, overcutting of trees, poverty, warfare, inadequate technology or education, the tragedy of the commons, or shifting cultivation. In West Texas, where Savory was working at the time, none of these causes were present. Rural population was declining, livestock numbers were way down from earlier decades, mesquite trees were encroaching, and there was peace. Money, technology, and education were abundant, all land was privately owned, and there was no shifting cultivation. Yet West Texas was desertifying as rapidly as the worst areas of Africa or Asia."

Desertification--why most "solutions" fail | ManagingWholes.com

The biologist claimed "holistic management" practices were vital to treating the underlying causes of desertification and has a website devoted to that kind of training. But notice that drought is not listed as one of the causes!
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