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The bottom line is that a judge has ruled that a woman terminating a pregnancy should not have something forced on her as a condition of her getting the procedure.
For all you "less government" people, this should be a good thing.
Do you support less government involvement in such a matter?
You are correct,it appears many proponents of abortion have no idea of the history of Planned Parenthood,have no idea of the reasons for the majority of abortions in this country but DO know that seeing an ultrasound might change the mind of someone so fragile but so much in control that she can make that decision...
So women are too easily swayed by a picture or sound of a heartbeat,but are also totally in control and logical about making the decision...
Oz, if you are a man (as I suspect you are), you have zero right to even participate in this conversation. Period. Not your body, never will be. And, if you have a wife, sister, girlfriend, daughter, niece...you best get out a chastity belt. Women have sex, women like sex. Sometimes things happen, and a pregnancy results. It's unfortunate, but this does not mean a woman must be punished simply because she participated in an amazing thing...sex. When you grow a vagina, you get to speak up.
Do you not realize that there is not one form of BC that is 100% effective?
Do you think every time a woman has sex she is agreeing to have a child?
Women do take responsibility for their vaginas.....they use BC....if it fails.... they either choose to carry a pregnancy or they abort. That IS taking responsibility.
Sure they take responsibility, unless something goes wrong or they forgot, or they just didn't bother.
You can't have it both ways.
Either they are responsible, in which case unplanned pregnancies are almost unheard of and abortion reserved for rare medical emergencies, or they are careless and stupid making poor choices and getting knocked up as a result. The problem with the second scenario is that if these women are so stupid and irresponsible as to get knocked up, then why do we give them the power to make life and death decisions about an innocent third party?
Micheal Jackson dangled his child over the railing of a hotel balcony and he's an a-hole for doing so. Brittany Spears let her kid steer the car and she's an a-hole too. The reason this is the case is because they each subjected these innocent kids to danger unnecessarily. Now you're telling me that a woman who knows in advance that she does not have any intention of carrying an unplanned pregnancy to term, yet goes ahead and copulates knowing her actions could cause the death of a child is somehow excusable?
I asked this question before and I'll ask it again. At what point does a woman assume responsibility for her actions? A man is held responsible for his part in the unplanned pregnancy at the moment he ejaculates. From that moment forward he is legally required to care for his son or daughter through adulthood. He is not given the option of killing the child because his rubber broke or he just didn't want to wear one. So let's connect a woman's responsibility for her actions to an event of her choosing. Is it when she decides to do the nasty? Is it when the child is conceived? Or do we have special laws to prevent women from being held accountable for their own irresponsible actions?
Oz, if you are a man (as I suspect you are), you have zero right to even participate in this conversation. Period. Not your body, never will be. And, if you have a wife, sister, girlfriend, daughter, niece...you best get out a chastity belt. Women have sex, women like sex. Sometimes things happen, and a pregnancy results. It's unfortunate, but this does not mean a woman must be punished simply because she participated in an amazing thing...sex. When you grow a vagina, you get to speak up.
Just so we are clear,you believe it is none of the man's business?
So you also support that the man should never be financially responsible for whatever the woman chooses,abortion or birth?
I know being responsible for your actions is SO old fashioned and the idea that you might be made to feel uncomfortable goes against your beliefs but there is no real downside to having a woman look at her ultrasound is there?
By the way,do you support third trimester abortions being available to women?
No, they will say would you like to see your kidney stones or your gallbladder, and then you can say...Yes, yes I would like to, or No, I would prefer not to and I waive my right to see them. That handles the malpractice. In this case you are saying would you like to see an ultrasound...No? That's too bad, the state says otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Who decided that an abortion did not involve the intentional killing of an innocent third party?
Abortion is not like other surgeries.
Even Roe acknowledges as much, but Roe simply asserts that the mother has a right to kill her child because it's no one else's business if she does.
The USSC got around the whole homicide issue by declaring the fetus a non-person. They did this in much the same way they decided African slaves were non-persons. This made the issue of slavery nothing more than one of property rights. Convenient then and convenient now.
Maybe someday we will come to realize we should never give people the power to declare other people non-persons. The whole Bill of Rights becomes mute if government may freely decide who is or is not a person such that all rights are denied at will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar
The bottom line is that a judge has ruled that a woman terminating a pregnancy should not have something forced on her as a condition of her getting the procedure.
For all you "less government" people, this should be a good thing.
The complete elimination of child protective services would mean less government too. So what?
The federal government imposing Roe on the states is a perfect example of big government.
Who is supressing information? A patient has the right to decide whether or not ask to see his or her xrays, MRIs, sonos, etc.
The State was removing the woman's right to decide whether of not she wanted to see a sono of the fetus.
Would you subject a woman who was brutally raped to look at a sono of a fetus she was forced to conceive? Would you subject an incest victim to view a fetus which resulted from being abused by dad?
Quote:
North Carolina legislators and officials have argued that by offering the image to a woman seeking an abortion and other information they would promote childbirth and protect patients from emotional distress associated with the procedure and possible coercion.
Isn't showing an ultrasound of the fetus in utero to (an already emotionally distressed) woman coercion on the State's part?
In my opinion while the anti-choice crowd obfuscates it being anti-choice comes down to holding at least one of 2 basic assumptions (in bold).
First.
Women are property. This is the kind of anti-choicer who insists on paternal consent to abortion even in cases of rape.
Second, and this is the one at play here.
Women are intellectually feeble. The only reason you would want to force a woman to see an ultrasound is because you don't think she is capable of deciding which information she needs to make a decision regarding her pregnancy on her own.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The fact that you call them "anti-choice" shows you have no clue what a pro life person is thinking. To a pro-lifer, you're not giving the baby a choice, you're just killing it.
Not sure why you pro-babykillers (like that?) people think that wanting to stand up for an innocent life is "controlling".
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
Exactly. Copulation could wind up in conception is a fact.
Discovering she's pregnant, finding herself with a difficult decision and then being made to look at an ultrasound of the fetus? That's playing on emotion.
The woman knows what's going on inside her without an ultrasound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC
Then what is the problem,she already knows what is going on...
The problem is that she doesn't need an ultrasound to tell her that a clump of cells has gone from zygote to fetus and that she has to decide whether or not to follow through on an unplanned pregnancy.
Why should a woman lose her right to decide whether or not she chooses to look at an unnecessary medical test?
Why should a woman lose her right to decide whether or not she wants an unnecessary medical test?
Why should a woman be forced to bear the cost of an unnecessary medical test?
Whatever did the right to life people do before ultrasounds became common place and allowed them to interfere with others rights anonymously? They picketed abortion clinics, shoved pictures of dead babies in women's faces, called them whores and sluts, murders and other terrible things.
These are the same people who would also berate a welfare mother for having so many children.
I am pro-choice. I decided to follow through with my unplanned pregnancy. I know others who have done the same, and some who have decided upon abortion. Either way, it's a very difficult and personal decision which the state has no right inserting itself into.
Yes, thank God we have not yet regressed to back-alley coat-hangar abortions again because reason and sanity yet prevail.
My body, my life, my choice. Get over it and keep your nose out of my business.
anothe rbody is involved and you are killing it why are you so scared of a law that allows you to see what you are killing before killing the baby
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Yes, thank God we have not yet regressed to back-alley coat-hangar abortions again because reason and sanity yet prevail.
