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Public Education is in a terrible state, Medicare is nearly insolcent, FDA does the bidding of big Pharma and big AG, environmental protections like the BP spill as a result of a bureaucracy not doing the proper oversight it was actually required to do? Are these successes in your eyes?
they've been successes for decades. They are getting very old, very tired, very bloated and need some tender loving care! They need to be repaired brought into this century and allowed to carry on in the way they were able to do for so long, helping so many many people. If the FDA is doing the bidding of big Pharma as your example that is because the politicians and lobbyists have had a field day with that agency since its inception. It was originally designed and for decades worked beautifully as a protection against bad drugs getting into patients hands and to ensure the safety of said drugs prior to going to market. The same with the AG, etc. Lets fix the problems, not dismantle their protections.
your goal is just to frustrate everyone into submission. you don't change peoples opinions with your arguments, because that is not your goal. your goal is simply to annoy everyone. you caught me on this thread with your incessant off topic comments about slavery when you know that is not the limited govt/libertarian position. i'm simply not going to respond to your posts anymore. get someone else to ask me the question and i'll be happy to respond
Einstein's driven someone else into helplessness. He just has WAY too much rational thought processes for the average person!
This is what the free market looks like where government does not even provide the most essential services and why it isn't such a good idea.
Although that particular policy is stupid, that isn't necessarily a free market policy. Also, all governments either punish you or don't provide services if you do not pay their fees. Nothing comes for free and how do you think the government collects revenue?
If I "forget" to pay my taxes, the government will forcibly take my pay, probably take my possession, and possibly put me in prison. Try "forgetting" to renew a business license or a drivers' license.
EDIT: I should also add that a more sensible option would have been the county government treating it as a type of "fire insurance". Pay the $75 fee and the fire department will put out the fire at no further cost if you pay it. If you haven't, you will be charged a couple of thousand dollars after they put it out and that is a fee that will be strictly collected.
There is another reason why government sucks. It took me less than three minutes to come up with a solution that was more logical, humane, and practical than what they county council (or whatever) probably spent hours debating and let someone lose their possession and pets over.
This is what the free market looks like where government does not even provide the most essential services and why it isn't such a good idea.
for a start it was a towns fire dept, not a business. if it was a business, you better believe that the owner would have a yearly insurance rate like the $75, but there would also be an uninsured rate if your house was on fire. if it was a business, the management would've set a fee like $2000 and would've put that fire out.
you need to understand that private insurance is voluntary socialism. we all pool money together in case one of us incurs a loss. voluntary socialism does not work if you only have to pay a premium after you make a claim!
Public Education is in a terrible state, Medicare is nearly insolcent, FDA does the bidding of big Pharma and big AG, environmental protections like the BP spill as a result of a bureaucracy not doing the proper oversight it was actually required to do? Are these successes in your eyes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sfemi
they've been successes for decades. They are getting very old, very tired, very bloated and need some tender loving care! They need to be repaired brought into this century and allowed to carry on in the way they were able to do for so long, helping so many many people. If the FDA is doing the bidding of big Pharma as your example that is because the politicians and lobbyists have had a field day with that agency since its inception. It was originally designed and for decades worked beautifully as a protection against bad drugs getting into patients hands and to ensure the safety of said drugs prior to going to market. The same with the AG, etc. Lets fix the problems, not dismantle their protections.
Yes, you have outlined the throw the baby out with the bathwater syndrome. If a school is bad, it must be because of the government.
What this doesn't recognize is that there are poor private schools -- ones that inflate the grades to satisfy parent expectations.
My aunt and uncles went to NYC public schools in the 1920s and 1930s and received top-notch free education. They later went off to free City College and then went to Ivy medical and law schools. There was nothing about their public education that anyone could criticize.
If the same schools are poor now, it isn't because they're under the "public" blanket.
The FDA has done an admirable job keeping harmful drugs and dangerous foods off the shelves. The main problem protection agencies have is funding. Since Reaganomics they've had their budgets slashed and are still expected to perform the same job.
Yes, you have outlined the throw the baby out with the bathwater syndrome. If a school is bad, it must be because of the government.
What this doesn't recognize is that there are poor private schools -- ones that inflate the grades to satisfy parent expectations.
My aunt and uncles went to NYC public schools in the 1920s and 1930s and received top-notch free education. They later went off to free City College and then went to Ivy medical and law schools. There was nothing about their public education that anyone could criticize.
If the same schools are poor now, it isn't because they're under the "public" blanket.
The FDA has done an admirable job keeping harmful drugs and dangerous foods off the shelves. The main problem protection agencies have is funding. Since Reaganomics they've had their budgets slashed and are still expected to perform the same job.
yup, but you guys always throw the baby out with the bathwater. with every crisis comes some form of regulation which stops some of the bad things from happening, but stops more good things from happening too!
i agree with you that the fda has stopped loads of harmful drugs from the market but they've stopped and/or delayed loads of beneficial drugs and treatments from making their way onto the market too! i at least concede that they have done some good. arguably they have done more harm, but you would never concede that they have done any harm at all!
Last edited by sammbriggs; 11-04-2011 at 07:44 AM..
Yes, you have outlined the throw the baby out with the bathwater syndrome. If a school is bad, it must be because of the government.
What this doesn't recognize is that there are poor private schools -- ones that inflate the grades to satisfy parent expectations.
My aunt and uncles went to NYC public schools in the 1920s and 1930s and received top-notch free education. They later went off to free City College and then went to Ivy medical and law schools. There was nothing about their public education that anyone could criticize.
If the same schools are poor now, it isn't because they're under the "public" blanket.
The FDA has done an admirable job keeping harmful drugs and dangerous foods off the shelves. The main problem protection agencies have is funding. Since Reaganomics they've had their budgets slashed and are still expected to perform the same job.
Sure public schools eductated almost the entire nation quite well. Some states because of adequate funding were always better than another state...and being a military brat....I went to plenty...but we ALL got great educations. (Of course in Texas where funding was terrible I had to go to Catholic school-another story). But we as a nation had great pride in our education system and people from all over the world wanted to be a part of it.
Medicare is not ok to the extent that health care is not ok. What plagues Medicare is the same that plagues private insurance costs -- rising medical costs.
The conservative narrative in 1965 was that if we pass Medicare, the government will be dictating where a doctor can live; will dictate his fees and in "the future you will be telling your children what it was like when men were free."
50 years later, we had 3-4 generations of seniors take advantage of Medicare with huge success. Seniors used to die for lack of access to Medical care because insurance companies dropped them. Medicare protects them. Only a knuckle-dragging conservative would contend that senior medical care was better before Medicare.
50 years later, my doctor lives in the nicest part of town and we, as people, are still free. In other words, Reagan and the conservatives were 100% wrong on every count.
Ironically, it's the insurance companies that dictate doctor fees and tell him/her that there are enough providers in that location that accept their insurance.
yup, but you guys always throw the baby out with the bathwater. with every crisis comes some form of regulation which stops some of the bad things from happening, but stops more good things from happening too!
Can't disagree there, but risk management is a part and parcel of everyday life, and demonstrates that not ideologies but pragmatism must rule the day. Besides, people qualified to produce good things will do so, even with regulations that prevent bad things. Reminds me of one of my ideals: Soichiro Honda. At a time when US automakers were cursing new regulations, as preventing them from doing good things, Honda was putting his brain to work to create what was launched in America as Honda CVCC (now Honda Civic). One could argue that the regulation, others hated, may just have helped Honda gain a foothold in America.
In fact, that whining continued to a later date as well. GM was complaining about regulations forcing it to dump its V6 engine designs. Honda took one of GM's engines, and made it work well within the stipulations of the regulation, and offered GM its help (business partnership). GM refused, and later replaced the entire design. But see, human ingenuity doesn't look for excuses, it looks for opportunities. At least that is my take on the subject.
Back in the early days of this nation, most states had strict regulatory control over corporations. This was also presented as a reason to not accept one of Madison/Jefferson proposals against corporate monopolies within the Bill of Rights. They were wary of corporate influence in government, in its ability to corrupt. And we can see, their fears were warranted.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 11-04-2011 at 08:54 AM..
yup, but you guys always throw the baby out with the bathwater. with every crisis comes some form of regulation which stops some of the bad things from happening, but stops more good things from happening too!
i agree with you that the fda has stopped loads of harmful drugs from the market but they've stopped and/or delayed loads of beneficial drugs and treatments from making their way onto the market too! i at least concede that they have done some good. arguably they have done more harm, but you would never concede that they have done any harm at all!
Regulation -by its very nature- comes from someone trying to "get something over on the public", or excessive greed/profit. Thus lobbying, and politicians get into the act via and plug up the works with POOR regulation in favor of those corporations/people that were profiting off the entity needing regulation. Thus, the regulation becomes not only cumbersome, but ineffective. Like I said before if we kept the lobbysist and the money out of government this wouldn't happen.
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