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Take It From A Grandmother Of 60 From Texas, You Have To Be From The South To Understand The Pride That This Flag Holds. Most People (not From The South) Do Not Understand The Pride That True Southerners Have. It Is Mostly Saying " Hey, I'm From Texas (oklahoma, Louisana, Arkansas, Etc) And Very Proud Of It". And This Flag Represents The South. Kinda Like It's Better To Be From The South Than Anywhere Else. There Are People Who Look At It In A Different Way, But Most True Southerners Do Not. And Have You've Every Heard That The Most Gracious People In The World Are From The South. We Just Feel Like We Love Our Country A Little More Than Some Others And Willing To Shout It From The Roof Tops
You are right on target, anonymous. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the poster you are directing these comments toward are undoubtably of the type who fancy themselves as morally-superior, enlightened, tolerant, individuals. However, going by personal experience with the breed, and by the posts presented, they are usually extremely intolerant of those who disagree with them, incredibly biased in their own right, and generally just extremely supercillious and personally disagreeable people. Regardless though, the hatred of the South seems almost pathological. And the refusal to consider anything that goes against the thesis that its faults and history are no worse than those which existed (past and present) in other parts of the country is every bit as closed-minded and delusionary as what he accuses others of.
So really, as the old saying goes, why bother to wrestle with pig? You get both get dirty, but the pig likes it.
Actually, why wrestle when you hold the inferior position? Why wrestle when you unforunately find yourself on the wrong side of a discussion defending the "flag of supreme ignorance", the confederate flag?
You incorrect view of me and my "breed" is not relevant to this discussion and doesn't shield the truth. I'm simply a person who doesn't support a flag that represents people who supported slavery. Such people had to be most ignorant, most barbaric, most vile, gutter people since the Neanderthals. The flag is synonymous with supreme ignorance whether you care to recognize that or not.
Actually, why wrestle when you hold the inferior position? Why wrestle when you unforunately find yourself on the wrong side of a discussion defending the "flag of supreme ignorance", the confederate flag?
You incorrect view of me and my "breed" is not relevant to this discussion and doesn't shield the truth. I'm simply a person who doesn't support a flag that represents people who supported slavery. Such people had to be most ignorant, most barbaric, most vile, gutter people since the Neanderthals. The flag is synonymous with supreme ignorance whether you care to recognize that or not.
Also, that's "supercilious."
Jeesh.......in your haste to become Reb's grammar/spelling police, I can't help but note that you misspelled the words 'unfortunately' and 'your'.
Carry on.......... and please, do feel free to tell us what you *really* think of the Confederate flag. Is there any chance the discussion could be had without calling others racist, ignorant, barbaric, gutter people? The only person I've ever heard refer to another people or race as 'gutter' is Louis Farrakhan referring to Jews. Now we're getting somewhere and revealing who we actually are, perhaps.
Jeesh.......in your haste to become Reb's grammar/spelling police, I can't help but note that you misspelled the words 'unfortunately' and 'your'.
Carry on.......... and please, do feel free to tell us what you *really* think of the Confederate flag. Is there any chance the discussion could be had without calling others racist, ignorant, barbaric, gutter people? The only person I've ever heard refer to another people or race as 'gutter' is Louis Farrakhan referring to Jews. Now we're getting somewhere and revealing who we actually are, perhaps.
LOL. Thanks for that notation about the spelling, Don. When I got up and read the posts this morning, I noticed that too (the mispellings by this person). But, I had made up my mind earlier to refrain from pig wrestling. That is, addressing this person directly and thereby dignify the rants and spew as if it were worthy of discussion/debate or anything but a contemptous snort.
This brings it to the second part of your missive, and naturally you have seen that for this person, it IS impossible to make a case or point without name-calling and attacks. So self-absorbed is this breed in their delusions of moral superiority, it is infuriating that others hold differing visions. To repeat something I noted earlier: ...they are usually extremely intolerant of those who disagree with them, incredibly biased in their own right, and generally just extremely supercilious and personally disagreeable people. (note I corrected the spelling mistake! ).
Of course, they don't see their own intolerance because, by definition, to disagree with their own vision of the world is to be intolerant, and intolerance is not to be tolerated! LOL You can see this in that no real facts have been presented to support a case or viewpoint, or even interpretation of historical facts, but the same old hate-filled litany to the point it is almost amusing.
I imagine others reading this thread will see it too. And that even those who also take a negative view of the Confederate Flag will be embarassed/put off by such mannerisms. In that regard, in a paradoxical way, the person is actually an ally! LMAO
I imagine others reading this thread will see it too. And that even those who also take a negative view of the Confederate Flag will be embarassed/put off by such mannerisms. In that regard, in a paradoxical way, the person is actually an ally! LMAO
Damn! 'Paradoxical' indeed. I thought you wuz a history professor, not a psychologist. I might have to give you a rep point for that analysis!
Only reason I really like the Confederate flag is because it looks so cool in all its simplicity. That's basically it.
With due respect, I'm not convinced you know which or what the Confederate flag is. There were more than several and many renditions; some lasting, some fading, some giving way due to design and battlefield misinterpretation, some waved briefly, some long standing, some regional, some national, a few for ships, others for land battles, one for cavalry, another for artillery, a few gold braided, all eventually tattered............but, none simple.
It should be called the "War Against the South's Secession and Agression they Displayed Against Fort Sumter, Upon Which the Union Retaliated and Layed Waste Upon the Hordes of Johnny Rebs."
There, thats more appropriate, wouldnt you think?
"War of Northern Aggression". hahaha Last I knew, the Union was FACTUALLY around before the Confederacy formed. So when the Confederacy formed they were now their own "nation" (according to their words), smack dab right next to the Union. This would definitely be perceived as a threat to the Union, so a mobilization of Union troops under President Lincoln amassed. So, not only has former Union states seceded and formed their own nation within the Union, but they also then fired upon Ft. Sumter, prompting justified retaliation from the Union forces, but somehow its labeled the "War of Northern Aggression".
Tomorrow Im going to come into work and announce that I have quit, because my job wont let me shoot guns on its property(or some other kind of crime), ok? Then, after announcing Ive quit, Im going to start my own company right here, in the same building. Now, anyone who passes by my desk is my new enemy, regardless that theyre old friends or whatnot. I mean, even though theyve been here long before I started my own company, theyre now on "MY TERRITORY" and invading "MY SPACE", theyre a "THREAT"! Next, Im going to walk up to the closest desk of my newfound "competition" and relentlessly pound the harmless worker into submission, and when that workers' friends and coworkers attack me for attacking him, Im going to call it "aggression" on their behalf. Sound familiar, anyone?
I wouldn't disagree with the above. And to get back on topic, I still would ask the folks who used the reasoning or logic that because the flag was heritage and important, they should proudly show it despite that it had been tainted by some racists, whether these folks would be ok with ppl who proudly showing the swastika for their religion and their heritage(which is much older) even though it has been tainted by hilter.
but not from the folks in this thread using the above logic.
I am really not altogther sure what you are asking. But I think I get the general thrust. However, before answering, I want to note that you seem to be drawing some sort of symbolic parallel between the Confederate Battle Flag as used by the South during the War Between the States and the swastika as used by the Nazi's. Wellll, let me rephrase that. Perhaps that is not YOUR personal belief, but it is implied on some level. And certainly there are many people who DO in fact make no distinctions. Or at least attempt to equate the two as very akin. But before going on, here are a couple of real and obvious differences.
1. The Nazi policy of genocide for those races/groups deemed "sub-human." This is the most appalling and revolting of any aspect.
2. At the time of the WBTS, slavery still existed in the western world, and it was being struggled with, in the American South as well. Whereas those enslaved in Nazi Germany were at a time when it had disappeared from Western Civilization for almost a century, and was brought back. Too, those enslaved by the nazi's were literally starved, beaten, and worked to death. Not even the severest critic of slavery as it existed in America alleges such inhumanity was commonplace. Sure, there were sadistic slaveowners, but there were still laws in the Southern states against deliberate mistreatment and slaveowners were obligated by law and common humanitarian/Christian ethics to take care of the sick, injured and old.
3. The Confederate States of America was a constitutional republic like the United States. Nazi Germany was a dictatorship. Free speech, religion, assembly, bearing arms, etc. did not exist in the latter, and in fact, could be punishable by death if deemed to be harmful to the state.
4. Nazi Germany pursued a militaristic and agressive foriegn policy with the intention of world domination. The Confederacy only wanted to be left alone and peacefully.
5. The political principles the South fought for were deeply rooted in those set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution (which itself had largely been written by Southerners).
6. In the United States at least, those who display the swastika usually DO in fact, adhere to the Nazi philosophy, at least in part. The vast majority of Southerners do so out of a sense of regional pride, heritage, etc.
Anyway, for those reasons, just to name a few, my initial reaction to someone displaying the swastika would be negative. At the same time, if the person explained to me that, in their personal set of values and beliefs, it represented nothing more than religious beliefs, or principles. Or of their ancestry? Then I would respect that. And probably mention what a shame it is the symbol has in fact been so tainted.
For some of us, this is part of the purpose of this thread, to give those who see the Confederate Flag in a negative light some facts of history or personal perspective that perhaps they had never considered and/or heard before.(keeping in mind of course, and emphasizing, the absolutel non-association between what was done under the two symbols).
Steve, we have been all over this before so if you have a short memory on the earlier exchange between us concerning historical perspective ala' secession, Ft. Sumpter, etc, then please go back and re-read it. Just as anyone else can if they are interested as well. I see no need to keep replying time and time again to your same old arguments which present nothing new.
What do I say next? About what? The picture of Ft. Sumter you posted? I guess what I say is what relevence does it have to the issue?
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