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the point I am trying to make is, that if the democrats doing the recall are not even willing to look for fraud in the recall petition, then dont do the petititon until they do start looking.
Again, black and white thinking. What is it with conservatives? It's not just Democrats "doing the recall". It's people who are upset at how he has destroyed their great state. Jeez, must everything be partisan and divisive? There are more than just two options.
Again, black and white thinking. What is it with conservatives? It's not just Democrats "doing the recall". It's people who are upset at how he has destroyed their great state. Jeez, must everything be partisan and divisive? There are more than just two options.
Walker did not destroy the state. I dont know where anyone got that. he just made the teachers pay more on their health insurance and pensions. if you dont like it, then maybe we could go all out and get rid of all public unions.
also, I am not conservative. big differences between Libertarians and conservatives.
Walker did not destroy the state. I dont know where anyone got that. he just made the teachers pay more on their health insurance and pensions. if you dont like it, then maybe we could go all out and get rid of all public unions.
also, I am not conservative. big differences between Libertarians and conservatives.
Walker has clearly exhibited destructive, immoral, and opportunistic tactics, methods which do not take the citizens of Wisconsin seriously. The state has gone downhill under his 'leadership'. And I apologize for mischaracterizing you, I still have great difficulty with libertarianism. I see it as an extreme form of conservativism. I don't know of any liberal-leaning libertarians, but then I don't know that many people!
QUOTE=monkeywrenching;22304332]Walker did not destroy the state. I dont know where anyone got that. he just made the teachers pay more on their health insurance and pensions. if you dont like it, then maybe we could go all out and get rid of all public unions.
also, I am not conservative. big differences between Libertarians and conservatives.[/quote]
THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! In point of fact, the teachers and the other workers covered by unions had ALREADY AGREED TO PAY THE ADDITIONAL INSURANCE AND PENSION COST BEFORE WALKER TOOK AWAY ALL OTHER BARGAINING RIGHTS. In addition, as I've stated elsewhere, these workers have for the past 7 years agreed to less wage increase or no wage increases in exchange for the health insurance and pension that they agreed to give up. So, after bargaining in good faith, they lost both wage and insurance and pension.
But, as I've state elsewhere, it is not just the mistreatment of the workers who serve us that has caused so many of us, democrat and republican, union and non union, to call for the end to this despots rule.
Here are just a very few of the reasons we are going to re-call Walker;
1. Within the first two weeks of being sworn into office, Walker had snuck through a bill....with the support of his republican controlled assembly...that gave the governor the right to sell state owned energy production for any price he chooses to anyone he chooses with no oversight by anyone. This is especially notable since Walker's campaign was financed by the Koch brothers who just happen to be in the energy production business.
2. Again, with the help of his buddies in the assembly, he has pushed through bills that has destroyed Wisconsin's once proud protection of clean air and water. Again, not surprisingly, this is something that the energy companies....such as those owned by the Koch brothers, have long desired.
3. Walker has pushed through bills that has completely changed voting rights in Wisconsin. He has tried to make it impossible for college students to vote....or even tech school students to vote. He instituted the requirements that only state issued photo IDs could be used to allow you to vote. He then tried to close down all the inner city offices that issued those IDs. That was partially reversed after much outrage and bad publicity. He shortened the time when absentee ballots could be issued to such a degree that it will be impossible for our soldiers overseas to vote. And keep in mind that this has all cost Wisconsin more than a million dollars...at a time when we are "broke" and that there has only been 3 cases of voter fraud in Wisconsin in recorded history.
4. Walker claims to be doing all this to provide jobs in Wisconsin. Well, Wisconsin has lost more jobs under Walker than any other state in the nation and at the same time mininum wage jobs have replaced family supportive jobs by 2 to 1.
5. Walker cut the return of tax to Wisconsin communities to the bone and at the same time took control of those community's ability to set their own tax rates. This has resulted in the cutting of police, fire, school, sanitation, etc. to such a degree that it has actually become actively dangerous for many of these communities. Schools are closing down left and right and the students are being crammed into buildings not built to hold half the number they must now hold. Burglery and drug crimes are going through the roof. People have already been warned that if we have our accustomed snow fall this year there is no way the streets will be able to be cleared. EMTs are cut to a degree that more than one emergency at a time can't be handled.
I actually could go on and on but for those of you who have been brainwashed into believing that the nurses, teachers, police, firefighters, street workers, forest rangers,etc. of Wisconsin are "thugs" who are bringing down Walker, these are a few reasons that thousands of us who do not belong to unions are just hoping and praying that we can get rid of Walker and the Koch brothers before our beloved state is completely destroyed.
IN ADDITION, under Walker's "great" leadership, Wisconsin is now at the very bottom of the list for job gains of any of the 50 states in the nation. That's right, he did all this destruction to supposedly create more job opportunities in Wisconsin. Instead, what he has done is put Wisconsin at the very bottom of the heap for job creation and for every miniumum wage job that has been created we have lost 3 family supporting wage jobs. And still people want to praise Walker as a great leader. Well, if he is leading Wisconsin into 3rd world status then I guess so.
Walker has clearly exhibited destructive, immoral, and opportunistic tactics, methods which do not take the citizens of Wisconsin seriously. The state has gone downhill under his 'leadership'. And I apologize for mischaracterizing you, I still have great difficulty with libertarianism. I see it as an extreme form of conservativism. I don't know of any liberal-leaning libertarians, but then I don't know that many people!
strange, the state of Wisconsin went downhill when that jerk doyle was in office. it has done nothing but go up since walker has been in office.
Libertarian. usually a good way to describe it is socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
that is why i get called liberal and conservative alot on this board.
Assuming you are right, and I don't think you are....Walker has won even if he gets recalled.
The unholy alliance between public sector unions and the Democrat Party has been busted. His reforms aren't going to be repealed...even Democrats who might replace him know that the state can't afford to undo them.
The only thing I know for a fact in politics is never say never. Laws are repealed, re-written and modified all the time.
Walker has shown no sign at all of nobly falling on his sword, either. When he goes down, it will be ridden out of town on a rail, and his political career is gone for good.
Well, others are free to think whatever they like. All I can say is that, as a lifelong resident of Wisconsin, I despise Walker and everything for which he stands. Thankfully, most other Wisconsin residents feel the same way so hopefully we can soon begin to try to undo all the harm he has done.
Oh do they really?
Seems WI residents had the opportunity to show their dislike in the various "referendums" the Left/unions have organized.
Let's see, the referendum on Walker in the Supreme Court race....FAIL.
The referendum on Walker in the Senate recalls....FAIL.
The WI GOP legislature/Gov. Walker have implemented a wide range of policies that have benefited the taxpayers, who were getting royally screwed by the unions.
Why do you despise him?
Property taxes have gone down, the union members are now FREE TO CHOOSE whether they want to be in a union, unions members no longer get their "dues" (that go straight to the democrat party) taken out of their checks, the budget is balanced, the state is moving forward with excellent public sector reforms.
Seems WI residents had the opportunity to show their dislike in the various "referendums" the Left/unions have organized.
Let's see, the referendum on Walker in the Supreme Court race....FAIL.
The referendum on Walker in the Senate recalls....FAIL.
The WI GOP legislature/Gov. Walker have implemented a wide range of policies that have benefited the taxpayers, who were getting royally screwed by the unions.
Why do you despise him?
Property taxes have gone down, the union members are now FREE TO CHOOSE whether they want to be in a union, unions members no longer get their "dues" (that go straight to the democrat party) taken out of their checks, the budget is balanced, the state is moving forward with excellent public sector reforms.
Again, people who don't know the facts seem to be content to just repeat the RW talking points.
1. Just yesterday I paid my property tax. Believe me, they did not go down.
2. You referenced opinions from our state Supreme Court as "referendums that failed." Clearly you haven't kept up on Wisconsin news or you would know that two of our "justices" are under investigation for taking money and/or resources from orgainizations funded by the Koch brothers. One of them was investigated for trying to strangle another of the justices and his own election has been a matter for investigation. If you think their narrowly made decision in favor or their buddy is taken seriously in Wisconsin then you really don't know Wisconsin people.
3. ALL union people have ALWAYS had the right and the ability to sign what is called an "opt out" that prevents ANY of their union dues from being used for political contributions. That portion of their dues is not withheld from their checks. If you don't believe this, please feel free to check the records and you will learn that it is true and has always been true.
4. The public sector reforms you consider "excellent" have taken away our ability to maintain the clean air and water standards for which we have always been proud. They have given the governor the sole right to sell our publicly owned utilites to anyone of his choice for any amount that he chooses, without any oversight from anyone. They have stripped many of our voting rights from those the governor doesn't trust to vote for him...including our soldiers overseas. They have done redistricting a year early in an attempt to secure republican districts before the re-call.
5. My hometown paper is probably one of the oldest, most conservative, reliably Republican papers in the country. Even this paper is calling Walkers actions a disgrace and a blot on the Republican party.
You are the one who needs to get your facts straight. Stop repeating SEIU and AFSCME misinformation please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
Again, people who don't know the facts seem to be content to just repeat the RW talking points.
1. Just yesterday I paid my property tax. Believe me, they did not go down.
You must live in one of the municipalities that forced approval of government union contracts before the reforms went into effect. Without knowing exactly where you're from, it's hard to say whether and why your property taxes went up. The truth is that in MANY if not MOST Wisconsin jurisidictions, municipalities are saving a LOT of money because of Walker's reforms, and property taxes are going down because of it. My guess is you live in Milwaukee, Madison or the Minnesota border/La Crosse area. If so, your property taxes are a function of the liberal fools you keep voting for in your local elections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
2. You referenced opinions from our state Supreme Court as "referendums that failed." Clearly you haven't kept up on Wisconsin news or you would know that two of our "justices" are under investigation for taking money and/or resources from orgainizations funded by the Koch brothers. One of them was investigated for trying to strangle another of the justices and his own election has been a matter for investigation. If you think their narrowly made decision in favor or their buddy is taken seriously in Wisconsin then you really don't know Wisconsin people.
Cognitive dissonance anyone? Your response totally misses the mark. The Supreme Court election was widely viewed as a referendum on Scott Walker, because the 4-3 conservative majority on that Court would have shifted to a 4-3 liberal court had Prosser lost. He didn't lose, preserving the conservative majority. In so doing, the left's hopes of declaring his reforms null and void by judicial fiat died.
Regarding the investigations, let's wait until they are concluded. Your overseers on the left are really superior at manufacturing crap like that. It's been done with almost every successful conservative politician in the country. Hundreds of ethics complaints about Sarah Palin - none validated. Hundreds of complaints about Newt Gingrich - only one trumped up charge after that witch hunt.
Quote:
3. ALL union people have ALWAYS had the right and the ability to sign what is called an "opt out" that prevents ANY of their union dues from being used for political contributions. That portion of their dues is not withheld from their checks. If you don't believe this, please feel free to check the records and you will learn that it is true and has always been true.
Prior to the reform, government union dues were MANDATORY and were automatically taken out of the worker's paycheck. Fact. You could "opt out" of having your money spent for "political purposes" but you could never opt out of paying the dues altogether. And what's the use of that? The greedy unions will just shuffle the dues money around to make sure they have enough funds to pay off corrupt Democrat legislators who will give them whatever perks and benefits the unions want in exchange for their votes. Now, thanks to Walker, union dues are optional and not mandatory. This means that if you are a Republican or an Independent or a Green, you don't have to pay $1000+ per year to support a union that donates 99.9% of its PAC funds to a party you don't agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
4. The public sector reforms you consider "excellent" have taken away our ability to maintain the clean air and water standards for which we have always been proud. They have given the governor the sole right to sell our publicly owned utilites to anyone of his choice for any amount that he chooses, without any oversight from anyone. They have stripped many of our voting rights from those the governor doesn't trust to vote for him...including our soldiers overseas. They have done redistricting a year early in an attempt to secure republican districts before the re-call.
Please explain to us how making union dues non-mandatory and asking public sector union employees pay a paltry 1.5% of their pension and health care costs has "taken away our ability to maintain the clean air and water standards." More non-sensical and totally unsupported pap on your part. Your notion that the governor now has dictatorial power to buy and sell utilities is also false. And who's voting rights have been "stripped"? Nobody's. As far as redistricting goes, the governor hasn't done anything the dirty union goons and their bought and paid for Democrat politicians wouldn't have done. They would have, and have, done much worse when they were in power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
5. My hometown paper is probably one of the oldest, most conservative, reliably Republican papers in the country. Even this paper is calling Walkers actions a disgrace and a blot on the Republican party.
If it is, it's not reliably conservative. And post a link so we can see if it really is reliably conservative and/or calling Walker a "disgrace."
What's disgraceful is the misinformation, smears, and lies coming from the greedy unions and their hoodwinked lapdogs.
Again, people who don't know the facts seem to be content to just repeat the RW talking points.
1. Just yesterday I paid my property tax. Believe me, they did not go down.
You must be in one of those districts where the politicians RUSHED to finalize the union goodie contracts BEFORE the Walker reforms went into effect, thereby screwing the taxpayer and locking in those lucrative union contracts (you knew this was happening, right?), instead of using the tools Walker gave local elected officials to reduce their tax burden.
2. You referenced opinions from our state Supreme Court as "referendums that failed." Clearly you haven't kept up on Wisconsin news or you would know that two of our "justices" are under investigation for taking money and/or resources from orgainizations funded by the Koch brothers.
Judges stand for re-election, which means they need money. Is there something illegal about getting donations from the Koch brothers? I imagine we could look and see where the three leftist judges get their donations, couldn't we?
One of them was investigated for trying to strangle another of the justices and his own election has been a matter for investigation.
Resolved and WITNESSES say that liberal hag ATTACKED Prosser..he was just defending himself. Any charges brought on EITHER party?
If you think their narrowly made decision in favor or their buddy is taken seriously in Wisconsin then you really don't know Wisconsin people.
Really? The voters of WI had a chance to display their displeasure with the Supreme court race.....they re-elected Prosser. Seems the WI people were pretty clear there.
3. ALL union people have ALWAYS had the right and the ability to sign what is called an "opt out" that prevents ANY of their union dues from being used for political contributions. That portion of their dues is not withheld from their checks. If you don't believe this, please feel free to check the records and you will learn that it is true and has always been true.
Well then, nothing has really changed, if this is true, has it? Union members had their dues deducted automatically by the state...shouldn't that really be a function of the union apparatus? I think you will find that more and more union members OPT-OUT of paying dues of any kind....same thing happened in Indiana - 95% decrease in dues-paying members.
4. The public sector reforms you consider "excellent" have taken away our ability to maintain the clean air and water standards for which we have always been proud.
Absolutely HILARIOUS! Link to PROOF that your air and water standards have degraded.
They have given the governor the sole right to sell our publicly owned utilites to anyone of his choice for any amount that he chooses, without any oversight from anyone.
Yeah, saving the taxpayer millions of dollars.
They have stripped many of our voting rights from those the governor doesn't trust to vote for him...including our soldiers overseas.
NONSENSE. Again, PROOF of this. Man, these are talking points straight from the unions/Left, who have been proven WRONG on all their fear mongering before the reforms went into effect.
They have done redistricting a year early in an attempt to secure republican districts before the re-call.
Redistricting happens every 10 years. This time after the 2010 census. It is 2011, going on 2012 in case you didn't notice. MOST state have already completed their redistricting maps.
5. My hometown paper is probably one of the oldest, most conservative, reliably Republican papers in the country. Even this paper is calling Walkers actions a disgrace and a blot on the Republican party.
Which paper would that be...just so we can be SURE of the truth. Just put up a link to an article proving what you claim.
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