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i think the relevance is showing how stupid it is that in this country you need a valid picture ID for checking out a book (or today, in my case, buying something at a store with a credit card) yet the president and holder would argue that it isn't even important enough on have on election day-when we do the most important, basic, and fundamental thing that we do in this country-
which is elect representatives who represent US.
It's an interesting debate, isn't it? You want to lower the hurdle for voting (at least I do) - the vote is very much skin in the game. People may vote foolishly the first time (happens a lot), but buyer's remorse is a strong feeling. Besides which, it's simply fundamental. It's the cornerstone of everything - "of the people, by the people, for the people", the "consent of the governed", it's simply soundbites without voting.
And we're forced to recognize the fact that there are people who are entitled to vote and who doesn't have the ID needed. As far as I'm concerned, it's OK to require ID for voting - if we have ensured that each and every citizen who may want to wake up on the day of the election and think "Today's a good day to change my mind and go vote" have an ID in hand already. Government should be able to clear that hurdle.
And we're forced to recognize the fact that there are people who are entitled to vote and who doesn't have the ID needed. As far as I'm concerned, it's OK to require ID for voting - if we have ensured that each and every citizen who may want to wake up on the day of the election and think "Today's a good day to change my mind and go vote" have an ID in hand already. Government should be able to clear that hurdle.
I agree but, even without ID requirements, people cannot just wake up and decide to vote that day in most states. Advance registration is generally required.
I agree but, even without ID requirements, people cannot just wake up and decide to vote that day in most states. Advance registration is generally required.
True, but perhaps that's part of the problem?
OK, so I'm from Europe. I'd get my voter card in the mail every time there was an election. No ifs and buts, I'd draw my ass to the polls and put my X next to whoever I felt was the least risk. It kinda worked.
Well, I did take 7th-grade math in (according to some) pseudosocialist Denmark, so who knows? Just kidding, it's actually basic math. When you subtract two percentages, the difference isn't expressed as a percentage, but in percentage points. Everybody knows this.
Sigh. YOU - not I, you - is arguing that there's no racial difference to speak of, and that Holden knows this. Yet, at the same time, you argue the actions are racially motivated. I know it's important to you that Holden must be a bad guy, but is internal consistency too much to ask for?
I should say neither way of expressing the difference is incorrect. You are simply expressing the difference in percentage terms.
At any rate South Carolina has one of the highest, if not the highest proportion of Blacks in the Union so the actual numerical difference is even smaller than it would be in say California.
OK, so I'm from Europe. I'd get my voter card in the mail every time there was an election. No ifs and buts, I'd draw my ass to the polls and put my X next to whoever I felt was the least risk. It kinda worked.
I agree that we should do what we can to make voting easier, but I also think we need ID requirements (with ID's and the documents required to get ID's available free of charge).
not having voter ID is just another way for both the republican and democrat party to enlist people who will vote more than once, and enlist people not allowed to vote.
It's a very valid comparison to show how stupid this entire argument is over our right to vote and making sure it stays intact.
So if you are fighting against this so heavily why are you not out there fighting for minorities to use the library without having to present a photo ID ?
Or banks for that matter to cash a check or open an account ?
Or the airlines to pass through check point charlie ?
Shhhh......the Left would like you to think people can just walk in a bank, cash a check, get on a plane, collect their monthly government assistance with any form of ID.
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Correct. Seems unlikely, but the numbers are there. I think I posted some links upthread.
Absolute nonsense. People in this country (don't know about YOUR country) need some form of identification to go about their daily lives.
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
It's an interesting debate, isn't it? You want to lower the hurdle for voting (at least I do) - the vote is very much skin in the game. People may vote foolishly the first time (happens a lot), but buyer's remorse is a strong feeling. Besides which, it's simply fundamental. It's the cornerstone of everything - "of the people, by the people, for the people", the "consent of the governed", it's simply soundbites without voting.
And we're forced to recognize the fact that there are people who are entitled to vote and who doesn't have the ID needed. As far as I'm concerned, it's OK to require ID for voting - if we have ensured that each and every citizen who may want to wake up on the day of the election and think "Today's a good day to change my mind and go vote" have an ID in hand already. Government should be able to clear that hurdle.
Yeah and the states that enact voter ID laws have made allowances for that. Can't afford an Id, one will be provided. Forgot your ID at home, cast a provisional, come back later and show you are who you say you are.
We ALL know the reason dems/Left hate voter ID laws is because they DEPEND on vote fraud, routinely.
There really is NO valid argument (even though you want to throw anything against the wall to see if it will stick) for requiring voters to PROVE who there are and to PROVE they are eligible to vote.
I don't know about in your country, but here, one vote matters and nothing more disgusting that knowing a legitimate vote is cancelled out by an illegal one.
Shhhh......the Left would like you to think people can just walk in a bank, cash a check, get on a plane, collect their monthly government assistance with any form of ID.
Absolute nonsense. People in this country (don't know about YOUR country) need some form of identification to go about their daily lives.
That's one way of dealing with inconvenient facts - simply ignore them. It's not very mature, but it certainly makes for a convenient way to maintain one's worldview.
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Yeah and the states that enact voter ID laws have made allowances for that. Can't afford an Id, one will be provided.
Wait a second - didn't you just say that nobody can go about their daily lives without an ID?
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There really is NO valid argument (even though you want to throw anything against the wall to see if it will stick) for requiring voters to PROVE who there are and to PROVE they are eligible to vote.
All of a sudden, the citizen has the burden of proof when up against the government? Is this the "small government" or is it the "individual freedom" plank of conservatism? As long as the government is proactive about making sure that every single citizen has their papers, I can agree to that.
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I don't know about in your country, but here, one vote matters and nothing more disgusting that knowing a legitimate vote is cancelled out by an illegal one.
How about a legal vote not being cast due to a paperwork requirement?
Back in the old country, the citizens would be up in arms if government came up with extra requirements without making sure that every single voter had the required ID. Of course, we - unlike most Americans - tend to vote. And we get a national ID mailed once per year, courtesy of our taxes.
That's one way of dealing with inconvenient facts - simply ignore them. It's not very mature, but it certainly makes for a convenient way to maintain one's worldview.
What "facts" are you talking about? You haven't brought ANY.
Wait a second - didn't you just say that nobody can go about their daily lives without an ID?
The states have provided for all the lame arguments of those that oppose voter ID laws. I don't think very many people go without ID in this country.
All of a sudden, the citizen has the burden of proof when up against the government? Is this the "small government" or is it the "individual freedom" plank of conservatism? As long as the government is proactive about making sure that every single citizen has their papers, I can agree to that.
This is the state making sure the right to vote is protected by those who would like to defraud the system. I'm all for protecting the process, you on the hand, are more concerned that those who are not eligible to vote may be inconvenienced. Again, one man, one vote.......for the democrats/Left, that is anathema.
How about a legal vote not being cast due to a paperwork requirement?
Like WHAT kind of paperwork requirement? As you probably don't know, cause you're not an American, that is what provisional ballots are for.
Back in the old country, the citizens would be up in arms if government came up with extra requirements without making sure that every single voter had the required ID. Of course, we - unlike most Americans - tend to vote. And we get a national ID mailed once per year, courtesy of our taxes.
Oh, so you DO have to provide eligibility to vote in your old country.
Hardly a burden to either get some form of identification (which 99.9% already have if they want to survive in the US), or if you somehow don't have an ID, you can get one for FREE. Simple, huh?
The argument that it is burdensome, unfair, racially motivated to require identification for voting is a lame one the dems/left will lose. In fact, OUR SCOTUS has ruled previously against the argument.
Protecting the process is more important than a few people being inconvenienced.
I'm sure it wouldn't bother you at all to find your legal vote has been nullified by an illegal one, right?
That's one way of dealing with inconvenient facts - simply ignore them. It's not very mature, but it certainly makes for a convenient way to maintain one's worldview.
What "facts" are you talking about? You haven't brought ANY.
Post #45 contains two excellent links. And of course, you yourself posted that there was 8.6% and 10%, non-black and black, respectively, without ID, remember?
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The states have provided for all the lame arguments of those that oppose voter ID laws. I don't think very many people go without ID in this country.
"very many" being hard to quantify, but we seem to have a consensus that's in the high single or low double digits.
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All of a sudden, the citizen has the burden of proof when up against the government? Is this the "small government" or is it the "individual freedom" plank of conservatism? As long as the government is proactive about making sure that every single citizen has their papers, I can agree to that.
This is the state making sure the right to vote is protected by those who would like to defraud the system.
You're evading the question. Who has the burden of proof?
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I'm all for protecting the process, you on the hand, are more concerned that those who are not eligible to vote may be inconvenienced.
As a matter of fact, I'm concerned that those who have the right to vote are being inconvenienced.
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Oh, so you DO have to provide eligibility to vote in your old country.
Yes. And the Gvt. sees to it - proactively - that every damn voter has the requisite paperwork.
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Hardly a burden to either get some form of identification (which 99.9% already have if they want to survive in the US), or if you somehow don't have an ID, you can get one for FREE. Simple, huh?
99.9% is obviously pulled out of thin air, if not from somewhere else. As for "FREE", that's turned out to be - not entirely true, either. Oh, the ID itself is free, not counting the time spent politely begging for permission to vote. Getting the documentation, on the other hand, isn't.
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Protecting the process is more important than a few people being inconvenienced.
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