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How many Americans really know anything about the history of Iranian-American relations besides what their corporate controlled banker funded mainstream media spoon feeds them? I find it appalling and down right scary how many Americans view Iran as some sort of third world hell hole with people living like tribal Africans. Despite their corrupt and fanatical Islamic regime Iran is a very modern, very advanced country with a very sophisticated and western friendly youth and population. It's sickening how out of touch and clueless many Americans are when it comes to history. The rabbit hole of Iranian American relations is MUCH deeper than their propensity to build a nuclear bomb. It goes back half a century.
But I guess Ron Paul is just a kooky old man when he uses the word "blowback". After all it's not like Osama Bin Laden wasn't a product of the CIA nor at one time did we see guys like Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.
It's not just Iran, and it's not just Americans that don't remember history.
I've seen a picture of FDR and Churchill hanging out with Stalin.
So many of these conflicts trace back to colonialism.
Despotic regimes never last. Eventually the mullahs will be overthrown. This is why containment is the best solution for the Iranians, just as it would have been for Iraq.
Hence, the revolution of 1979. Iranians didn't care much for our puppet government backed by the SAVAK who tortured dissenters using Nazi torture tactics taught to them by the CIA and Mossad.
Long before Flt 655 there was the U.S./British overthrow of a anti-Commie/Pro West Iranian leader named Mossadeq in 1953..........because he wanted the Iranian oil for the Iranian people not U.S/British/Europeon oil giants.
And he was democratically elected by the people of Iran. The US and Britain backed the overthrow of his government and installed the Shah.
Some people in Iran remember this, and are still pissed off.
The iran defenders like to run in circles; and they stick to the talking points script carefully, using them in varying order depending upon mood:
- the US owes them because it deposed their leader 70 years ago (as if removing mossadegh the dictator was a "bad" thing. By this "logic", the US can attack the Britain for a 1,000 years for the wars of 1776 and 1812).
Total nonsense. Mohammed Mossadegh was democratically elected by the Iranian people, and a staunch anti-communist, pro-western leader of impeccable character when it came to attending to the needs and interests of the Iranian people. He was Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 1951. His only crime was the "radical" idea that Iranian oil belonged to the Iranian people instead of the Queen of England. How dare he! This made him persona non gratta in the eyes of the western Anglo-American overlords, who proceeded to remove him from power and install the Shah of Iran, one of the most brutal, blood thirsty dictators of the 20th century, who made guys like Saddam Hussein look like Florance Nightingale. In the end, the Iranian oil was returned to it's rightful owner, British Petroleum. And the Iranian people set out on their new journey of brutal oppression and torture at the hands of the Shah's secret police.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
- the iranians are Westernized and love the US, so they should not be attacked (as if this is an issue about the people, and not the government)
As if it isn't, right? Iran's 66 Million people might disagree with your idea that bombing them into the stone age (like we did in Iraq) isn't about the people.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
- iran is entitled to a nuclear weapon, since israel, india, and mars has them (iran signed the NPT and is legally bound not to develop weapons, and second, what other nations do or did is not relevant)
Some people never learn ... just repeat after me "They have weapons of mass destruction" 1000 times, and then lets go blow them up with our weapons of mass destruction! The facts are, Iran is surrounded by countries hostile to them, particularly the US (look at a freaking map and chart US-Israeli military actions and occupations for a clue, if constant rhetoric and threats of attack, including the use of nuclear weapons isn't obvious enough of a threat).
The facts are, the most dangerous regimes already have nuclear weapons, with Israel (who REFUSED to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty or ever allow international inspections); Pakistan, who remain on the hairy edge of an Islamic Extremist takeover, placing nuclear weapons in the hands of real (not imagined) maniacal extremists; North Korea whom we've already had a war with; and us, the US, who is the only nation on earth who has actually used nuclear weapons against another country ... and are currently doing so now by using depleted uranium in ALL conflicts for which the US-Nato is engaged.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
- iran is a peace-loving nation who has not attacked another nation is like 1,000 years (as if all of their terrorist proxy armies operating across the middle east like hezbollah, hamas and the iraqi shiite militias, are just our imagination, and iran is "special" so it is allowed to foment wars using terrorism)
Actually, Hamas was a creation of Israeli Intelligence to divide power and weaken the PLO's influence, while providing the Israeli government the ace in the hole it needs to dismiss genuine peace initiatives. Whenever international pressure builds to force Israeli to negotiate in good faith, they can always count on Hamas to make some heinous threat to drive Israel into the sea, and refuse to ever recognize Israel. Quite conveniently, Israel then says ... see? We want peace but than nasty Hamas (who is controlled by the Mossad) just won't let us! Shucks!
Nevertheless, it is true that Iran has not invaded another country during the entire existence of the United States of America, who has invaded, engaged in covert and overt military action, or overthrew COUNTLESS governments and countries worldwide.
And speaking of terrorism, NOBODY knows terrorism better that the US-Israeli intelligence operations who are behind MOST OF IT.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
- the US has also conducted "terrorism" or done some questionable things, so iran is allowed to defend itself (as if the two nations are even slightly morally equivalent, only a far-left lunatic would even try to put them on equal footing)
Ah yes .... lobbying for a seat on the Supreme Court are you? That's right, nobody has the right of self defense unless American interests are served.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
There are probably a few others, but these form the internet posting manual for defending against conducting an attack against iran and its awful regime.
Total nonsense. Mohammed Mossadegh was democratically elected by the Iranian people, and a staunch anti-communist, pro-western leader of impeccable character when it came to attending to the needs and interests of the Iranian people.
Less emotion, more facts. "Impeccable character"...what are you his press agent? Here's some facts:
He nationalized the oil industry and ignored his international contracts, thereby telling countries who had spent huge sums helping develop iran's oil industry to take a hike. He disbanded parliament, and took over all levers of government.
Regardless of whether it was right or not in overthrowing him, the current iranian regime is such a cancer and terrorist regime that it must be overthrown, there will never be peace in the middle east as long as it exists.
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As if it isn't, right? Iran's 66 Million people might disagree with your idea that bombing them into the stone age (like we did in Iraq) isn't about the people.
I've said nothing about attacking the people, only liquidating teh regime and all of its military assets, including the paramilitary forces like the basij.
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Some people never learn ...
Like those calling for a "grand bargain" as was negotiated with n korea? How's that one working out for the pacifists? What, the heinous regime just starved another million to death, and still have a growing nuclear weapons program...
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The facts are, Iran is surrounded by countries hostile to them,
Well, I wonder why they have so many enemies...
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Actually, Hamas was a creation of Israeli Intelligence to divide power and weaken the PLO's influence,
Which means nothing. Did the israelis also create the islamic jihad, hezbollah, DFLP and all of the other terrorist groups?
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Whenever international pressure builds to force Israeli to negotiate in good faith, they can always count on Hamas to make some heinous threat to drive Israel into the sea,
...or a suicide bombing at the behest of its masters in teheran and damascus.
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Nevertheless, it is true that Iran has not invaded another country during the entire existence of the United States of America,
Your credibility just collapsed...
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And speaking of terrorism, NOBODY knows terrorism better that the US-Israeli intelligence operations who are behind MOST OF IT.
...bordering on the psychotic...
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Ah yes .... lobbying for a seat on the Supreme Court are you?
...now when the ammo supply goes dry, it becomes personal. ZZZzzzzzzzzzz....did you say something?
How many Americans really know anything about the history of Iranian-American relations besides what their corporate controlled banker funded mainstream media spoon feeds them? I find it appalling and down right scary how many Americans view Iran as some sort of third world hell hole with people living like tribal Africans. Despite their corrupt and fanatical Islamic regime Iran is a very modern, very advanced country with a very sophisticated and western friendly youth and population. It's sickening how out of touch and clueless many Americans are when it comes to history. The rabbit hole of Iranian American relations is MUCH deeper than their propensity to build a nuclear bomb. It goes back half a century.
But I guess Ron Paul is just a kooky old man when he uses the word "blowback". After all it's not like Osama Bin Laden wasn't a product of the CIA nor at one time did we see guys like Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.
Most think our relations with Iran started with the hostage crisis, but it actually started in the 40's. Most fail to realize that our combatant relationship with the middle east directly correlates with our intervention in those countries. That is one reason they are trying to shut down the internet, to much free info.
He nationalized the oil industry and ignored his international contracts, thereby telling countries who had spent huge sums helping develop iran's oil industry to take a hike. He disbanded parliament, and took over all levers of government.
Regardless of whether it was right or not in overthrowing him, the current iranian regime is such a cancer and terrorist regime that it must be overthrown, there will never be peace in the middle east as long as it exists.
Aside from the fact that those with Master's Degrees in political science from the University of Wikipedia get what they pay for, they aren't much better educated than those who's sole source of "facts" comes from FOX, CNN, MSNBC.
There will never be peace in the world when one country thinks they have the right to blow up any other country at their whim, without provocation or justification other than propaganda and exaggerated threats.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
I've said nothing about attacking the people, only liquidating teh regime and all of its military assets, including the paramilitary forces like the basij.
Like we did in Iraq? A Million plus Iraqi civilians dead ... well, that's just the nature of war ... collateral damage, although unfortunate is inevitable. You gotta break a few eggs if you wanna make an omelet, right?
You want to ignore the fact that in any war, particularly the type for which the United States has become so fond of, means that there will be more civilian casualties than military ones. Bombing other countries cities, and infrastructure, including power generation destroys the fundamental services needed for life among the civilian population.
In Iraq, that is exactly what we did .... resulting in massive shortages of clean drinking water, food, medical service, etc., while it's OK for little chicken hawks to sit behind their computers and TVs cheering on such acts as if they were watching a football game .... I only hope that I have the opportunity to watch such types get what they ultimately deserve.
The reality is, what is going on with US foreign policy and military aggression is a long series of war crimes as defined by the international community.
Actions being planned in Iran will not even resemble what happened in Iraq ... as bad as that was, the consequences of war with Iran will be exponentially worse.
You and others of like mind are criminally insane, cheering on the psychopathic war mongers behind this extreme evil.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
Like those calling for a "grand bargain" as was negotiated with n korea? How's that one working out for the pacifists? What, the heinous regime just starved another million to death, and still have a growing nuclear weapons program...
Other than western propaganda, you have no idea what goes on inside of N. Korea, nor what part of it is due to never ending western alliance sanctions, who cut off and isolate disliked regimes in order to coerce compliance, by offering relief from the calamity, detestation and starvation they purposely caused. That's what "sanctions" do, you know? That's what they are ... non-military acts of war which are designed to soften targets for actual military action. That's what we did in Iraq from 1992 until the ultimate invasion and occupation.
What we do know is, in spite of the dire warnings made about the dreadful consequences of allowing the madmen in N Korea to attain nuclear weapons, and the certain catastrophe that will occur in such event ... they did attain them, and no such catastrophe occurred. They did not lob nukes at S. Korea as was the warnings ....now we know (most of us) that those things didn't occur. What happened was exactly the goal, possessing nuclear weapons made the west think twice about firing cruise missiles at them every time a North Korean sneezed, and provided the N. Koreans with a little deterrence ... an insurance policy against becoming another helpless Iraq or Libya.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
Well, I wonder why they have so many enemies...
The same reasons anyone is such an evil empire (while others, not as much)... anyone having the balls to tell the Rothschild dynasty and their global enforcement goons to take a hike, become enemy #1 ... especially if two conditions are present simultaneously ... a) they have desirable natural resources and b) they don't possess nuclear weapons to retaliate with.
In the case of Iran, both conditions exist ... while in N. Korea neither situation exists, which is why you don't hear the daily propaganda about how dangerous N. Korea is ... or Pakistan, for that matter.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
Which means nothing. Did the israelis also create the islamic jihad, hezbollah, DFLP and all of the other terrorist groups?
You used Hamas as an example of Iranian terrorist threat ... then the same should apply to those REALLY behind Hamas ... the Israelis. Now you claim it doesn't matter .... it only matters if it is Iran ....
But guess what ... it is the west that's asassinating people in Iran ... it's the west engaging in terrorist acts on Iranian soil, not the other way around. And it's been that way for 60 years.
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Originally Posted by spiellgood
...or a suicide bombing at the behest of its masters in teheran and damascus.
Your credibility just collapsed...
...bordering on the psychotic...
...now when the ammo supply goes dry, it becomes personal. ZZZzzzzzzzzzz....did you say something?
Morally and intellectually bankrupt at the same time is both a physical and spiritual death sentence. God have mercy on your soul, or not.
Aside from the fact that those with Master's Degrees in political science from the University of Wikipedia get what they pay for, they aren't much better educated than those who's sole source of "facts" comes from FOX, CNN, MSNBC.
Again, I offered a well-known source, there's plenty of others...
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There will never be peace in the world when one country thinks they have the right to blow up any other country at their whim, without provocation or justification other than propaganda and exaggerated threats.
You might want to ask iran why it keeps threatening israel, whose closest border is over 1,000 miles away.
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Like we did in Iraq? A Million plus Iraqi civilians dead
Why is it every time some america-hater/far leftist mentions iraqi dead, the number keeps rising? And who killed most of those iraqis? Was it the US army, or iranian terrorist shiite militias, and al qaeda? Or are you one of those clueless far leftists who blames america for every bad event in the world?
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Bombing other countries cities, and infrastructure, including power generation destroys the fundamental services needed for life among the civilian population. In Iraq, that is exactly what we did...
More idiotic claims. Show evidence of the US conducting indiscriuminate bombing campaigns.
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You and others of like mind are criminally insane, cheering on the psychopathic war mongers behind this extreme evil.
Another weak poster preferring to personally insult...
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Other than western propaganda, you have no idea what goes on inside of N. Korea,
Other than the fact that regime has starved millions of its people to death over the last 20 years, yet has a very well-fed and equipped army, runs one of the world's worst gulags, allows zero freedoms, is probably the world's worst dictatorship, and repeatedly has attacked south korea in an unprovoked manner - what else do we need to know?
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What we do know is, in spite of the dire warnings made about the dreadful consequences of allowing the madmen in N Korea to attain nuclear weapons,
We "allowed" them to obtain nuclear weapons? Are you insane?
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anyone having the balls to tell the Rothschild dynasty
No we're onto tin foil hat conspiracies...
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You used Hamas as an example of Iranian terrorist threat ... then the same should apply to those REALLY behind Hamas ... the Israelis.
So now you're claiming israel is responsible for all of hamas' terrorism and murder against itself?
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But guess what ... it is the west that's asassinating people in Iran ... it's the west engaging in terrorist acts on Iranian soil, not the other way around. And it's been that way for 60 years.
You might want to read a book once in a wgile, and learn how many people iran has murdered in south america, europe, and across the middle east...
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So who has heard of Iranian Flight 655???????
