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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,325,718 times
Reputation: 7026

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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
And yet many aspects of that television set are government mandates, such as the frequencies that are allowed to be used, the wiring used, etc.
But the government can't force you to buy a TV.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,827,269 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Reading is fundamental. TV is not a Right. I'd never say it is. And even if it was, would the government have a right to make people buy TV's?
Well, your example presented it as a right. Don't present something you'd later have to run from. Not that it would be the first time.

How is paying for something that is not a right, unconstitutional?
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,712,723 times
Reputation: 23295
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Not true, I do not have to buy a "green toilet", I can keep the one in my 70 yr. old home. I do not have to drink treated water, I can have a well dug.

Local building codes and federal mandates to purchase an item as a US citizen or have the force of the IRS upon you (read take your home & property for non-compliance) for not participating in dictated commerce is NOT Constitutional.
Or get a boat load for it on the black market.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Neither you nor they have a right to be happy.
Even if you obviously think that other people's happiness is not worth the money, companies also benefit from healthy staff...

And who says what is a right, anyway? Many laws and constitutions were written when health care was no issue, yet.
Since people have no right to work, either, nor a right to food, you are taking people's fate out of their own hands and making them dependent on luck, welfare, etc.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:49 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 3,215,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
We have corporate run airlines, newspapers, cell phone companies, paper mills, car factories, clothing manufacturers/retailers.... What's your point?
Non-sequitur. The priority of corporations is to make a profit. This goes for healthcare providers as well as airlines, car factories, etc. In other words, providing everyone with affordable healthcare is NOT a priority for either providers or insurers.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:50 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 3,215,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
(We're getting somewhere...) Paid? By whom?
All of us. You didn't know this? Huh.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,325,718 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
But market forces aren't controlling healthcare prices in the U.S. In fact, there is very little competition among healthcare providers. And the trend in the past 10 years has been merging providers, creating an atmosphere of even less competition, and driving prices higher still.
That's a splendid argument for privatizing health care. Welcome to the light, my friend. When medicare/caid sets the price basis for health care, every doc gets pretty much the same fee whether their in demand or not. Let market forces take over and docs will compete, either by price or by reputation, for business.

Last edited by Cavaturaccioli; 02-07-2012 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,325,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Exactly what choice do you suppose people who cannot afford health insurance have?
The same choice that people who can't afford cars have.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,827,269 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
We have corporate run airlines, newspapers, cell phone companies, paper mills, car factories, clothing manufacturers/retailers.... What's your point?
And they don't do it for customers. They do it for themselves. Besides, what is the difference between health care and buying a news paper after all?
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,642 posts, read 15,602,495 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Great misleading thread title.

Under the present Medicare program, many doctors and healthcare professionals are unjustly enriched due to the fixed fees and rates Medicare mandates.

Morally justify the unjust monetary enrichment of another.

After you attempt that (assuming you have the temerity and wherewithal to do so), note that many Medicare patients are denied health care due to the fact that the fixed fees and rates Medicare coerces do not cover the true costs of health care services.

Morally justify the denial of health care to another under Medicare.

Universally...

Mircea
Expert: Healthcare mandate constitutional

Quote:
In a brief for petitioners in the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services says the individual mandate is a legitimate use of Congress' commerce and taxing powers because healthcare markets have near universal participation and the minimum coverage provision is needed to regulate the way individuals pay for their participation
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