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Income, drugs and healthcare for the old you mean?
That is a good deal of it. However, I am also a believer in stare decisis and also do not believe SS and Medicare/ Medicaid payments are partially just return of assets and insurance payments already coerced from the individuals now collecting.
It wasn't forcibly removed from their paychecks. When asked if all money from social security should be paid back, and cease the program, an overwhelming 60% of Americans support the continuation of the program.
60% of Americans can kiss my ass. I don't want anything to do with it. I'd opt out tomorrow if I could, but I can't, because people like you insist that 60% can lay down the rules for the other 40%.
So libertarians have no problem with an oppressive state or local government, got it?
Its not just them Libertains that want more local choice and abilty to governa themselves more,One only has to look at the last moiid tems to see its biggest chnages where at the state level .All movemnts begin at lower levels and then chnage the national makeup of politcs.
60% of Americans can kiss my ass. I don't want anything to do with it. I'd opt out tomorrow if I could, but I can't, because people like you insist that 60% can lay down the rules for the other 40%.
So you don't love your country, because thats how the system is designed, laws that make the most good, for the most people, put in place by elected officials who represent the majority.
Gotcha.
BTW, if its people like me, then the founding fathers are like me.
When you transfer money for the sole purpose of enriching one individual at the expense of another it is theft. Does not matter if the man with the gun forcing you to hand over your cash is wearing a badge or not. Just because government does something does not make it moral. Would rape be OK if it was legal?
because thats how the system is designed, laws that make the most good, for the most people, put in place by elected officials who represent the majority.
It would also benefit the majority to murder me and split up whatever's in my savings account.
Don't care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
BTW, if its people like me, then the founding fathers are like me.
No sir, they are not, because you insist, day after day, that the will of majority should reign supreme, which would put you directly at odds with the founding fathers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
No, its called taxation.
Are you in the top 49%? If the bottom 51% voted to confiscate all of your wealth for redistribution, I'm assuming that would not be a problem for you?
It would also benefit the majority to murder me and split up whatever's in my savings account.
Don't care.
No sir, they are not, because you insist, day after day, that the will of majority should reign supreme, which would put you directly at odds with the founding fathers.
Are you in the top 49%? If the bottom 51% voted to confiscate all of your wealth for redistribution, I'm assuming that would not be a problem for you?
Que is that your country is set up so that the majority elects officials to represent them, and then they have programs that are paid for by taxes, that may or may not help everyone, but help the majority.
You obviously don't care about how the United States operates, or that the majority of people like the social programs that you don't. Thats your right, but then to claim that those taxes are theft is, well, laughable.
Que is that your country is set up so that the majority elects officials to represent them, and then they have programs that are paid for by taxes, that may or may not help everyone, but help the majority.
My country is set up based on individual rights. That would include my individual right to save my own money. Apparently 40% of people agree with me. But hey, screw all of us, we're the minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
You obviously don't care about how the United States operates, or that the majority of people like the social programs that you don't. Thats your right, but then to claim that those taxes are theft is, well, laughable.
So because I disagree, I don't care about America. I have my own ideas about what is best for the country, and IMO, they are better than yours. Mob rule is guaranteed disaster.
Whoa! A whole lot of name calling, misrepresentation and blame game going on here. Perhaps to sour people to the idea of libertarianism, to those who are new to the concept? Let me explain the concept of libertarianism like I would explain to an 8 year old.
Libertarianism is about liberty. It's the freedom of choice - the ability to do what you like, as long as it doesn't hurt somebody else. Like someone said here, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. That's it. If you understand this concept, you understand libertarianism.
Libertarianism is also an umbrella term, and encompasses a wide range of ideas, and doesn't necessarily mean the entire platform of the Libertarian party either. There is Anarcho-capitalism, Minarchism, Voluntaryism etc., so it's almost sure that no two libertarians agree 100% on every issue, but that's OK - freedom of choice, remember? Even when two libertarians disagree vehemently on something, they don't try to impose their beliefs on each other, and that's the key.
Now, are there fake libertarians? You bet. Glenn Beck is one. He claims to be a libertarian and a small-government advocate, but when it comes to our foreign policy, he conveniently throws everything out of the window, and goes full-blown neocon. Also, all the "Beltway Libertarians" - CATO types and the Reason Foundation types, are also libertarians of convenience, who don't always walk the walk.
I don't like to label myself, and nor do I think any libertarian should try to label himself/herself, because there is always something or the other we can find to disagree with the dictionary definition of a strain of libertarianism. And that's OK.
Libertarians are also Constitutionalists. I am, hardcore. If the government wants to pee, it should be authorized in the Constitution. Period. You can amend the Constitution to change something you don't like, sure, but as long the Constitution exists the way it is at any point in time, it should be followed.
I am against federal government involvement in any sphere of life or economy which is not authorized by the Constitution. Functions which are not authorized by the Constitution should be handled by the private sector or the states. This usually spawns a favorite fallacy perpetuated by the statists - "Oh, so you like oppressive government at the local/state level." My answer is - not at all. BUT, if at least that function is down to my state or county, I can oppose it more effectively and make it defunct. If that function is authorized by my state Constitution, then by all means, do it. But if not, the same restriction applies here too.
We are usually pro-drug legalization, pro-Constitution, anti-undeclared wars, anti-income tax, pro-choice..or in one sentence, "as long as it's between consenting adults, it's not my business, nor is it the government's business".
If our great Founding Fathers were alive today, you bet that they would have called themselves libertarians. They were awesome like THAT.
Well said!
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